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moe wagner is the type of player i would never want to let go reminds me of how i liked this high energy players like prime bo outlaw, pietrus, gortat or darrell armstrong

I'm by no means Walter Clayton Jrs biggest fan, I like him, i'd be happy with drafting him, but I'm not sold he's some star or anything. That being said, inspired by your comment I went to barttorvik to look for similar statistical profiles to him, and now granted I used arbitrary cut off points.. (if you're interested it was: Games Played ≥ 15; Assist % ≥ 20; Ast/TO Ratio ≥ 1.5; 2P FG % ≥ 0.5; 3P FG % ≥ 0.37; 3PA/100 Poss ≥ 12; Free Throw % ≥ 0.8) ..but the only drafted player that met those thresholds (that, again, I derived from Walter Clayton Jrs profile) was 2012 Damian Lillard. But, there were also a bunch of undrafted, non prospect, scoring PGs guys like Max Abmas in 2021, Steven Ashworth in 2023 etc. If you lower some of the thresholds slightly to account for an element of randomness, and filter only for draft picks (because otherwise you get a long long list of random names and filtering for draft picks is kind of short hand for filtering out guys who played in weird low conferences or never had NBA athleticism to be considered a prospect) you get names like: Coby White Jimmer Fredette Trae Young Klay Thompson Cameron Payne Isaiah Cannan Shelvin Mack Jared Butler (Just FYI I feel like we should asterix Trae Young, and to a certain extent Lillard and Thompson because they all scored on more volume than Clayton did and I think were all more clearly NBA caliber offensive creators hence why all were high draft picks) It's a weird list that I think helps to identify the difficulty in evaluating a guy like Clayton, because there have been a lot of star NCAA guards that weren't great NBA players... But he was also statistically very impressive and he lead a team to a national championship which adds sort of 'intangible' points.

I might get eye rolls for this, but watching TJ McConnell impact the finals has me thinking we should address our PG issue by bringing back *drum roll…. Markelle Fultz on the minimum. He was mentored by TJ. We could play him in a lineup where we don’t need him to be a threat to shoot; and he could be in a 10-12 mpg bench role with almost no pressure. If he’s struggling, we pull him. Just thinking of cheap alternatives. It’d be fun to bring him back in a better position to succeed

I'm sure the Magic would love to add a Penny Hardaway or a Magic Johnson but that player is not out there.

Are you ready for some basketball??? Will our rooks star? Will they at least flash? Do the Magic have the best mascot in sports? These are all relevant questions. Summer league for the Magic kicks off tomorrow night at 7:30 EDT.

Cole to the Bucks. Good luck fella

"Lure", we already replaced him lol.

Also the Magic do have the best mascot in sports yes.

The Prunty hiring is official. What a stellar off-season by Weltman and Parker. I barked loud after another dead trade deadline, but he’s redeemed himself this summer and then some.

https://x.com/NBAMemes/status/1939863118089527577 I remember the first time I saw this video, I knew right then we made a mistake.

It feels like we’ve been talking about Tyus Jones for 10 years

Finally... a legit value signing for Orlando. Plus, a guy who can run point and shoot. I'll take it!

Free agent guard Tyus Jones has agreed to a one-year, $7 million deal with the Orlando Magic, sources tell ESPN. Magic officials negotiated the deal with Jones' agent Kevin Bradbury of LIFT Sports Management, which gives Jones a key role for the East contenders.

I truly think that we broke Atl's heart in the play in, I think we will need to again!

Something to consider: The KCP signing was an overpay and a mistake. The Cole extension was a mistake. Many of us also believe the timing of the WCJ extension was a mistake, too.That all being said, I think we need to temper our expectations with WeltHam's ability to sign free agents/pay guys.

I Just seen brook Lopez in Downtown Orlando hmmm

Moe and Caleb both declined

Duncan Robinson declined his player option. He'd interest me at the MLE if we could get a guard another way.

"Legacy"... this is a message board we're all here to talk to real people not some large language models mash up of 300 different search results.

No this is not true. The full mid level exception is available to teams under the luxury tax. Tax payer teams that are below the first apron have access to the tax payer mid level exception. If you use either you actually cannot go over the first apron. You're hard capped at the first apron amount. We're obviously declining the Queen and McClung cap holds so they hold no baring. The Jase cap hold is relevant but the Noah Penda one isn't because the second round pick exception doesn't count against the cap until after July 30th. His eventual salary does have to be factored in though if we do use the MLE and are thus hard capped at the first apron.

You got this right....congrats !!!!

https://x.com/YossiGozlan/status/1937646880508510406 That's a lot of money saved.

OKC is a rare case of a team winning the title with some key players that are still on their rookie contract, and with a ton of assets available for the future (they will reach tax problems as any team, but with a lot more options to fight against that, with all those picks helping them making moves and choices) As a team, they're incredibly young but seem really calm and hard workers at the same time, with a lot of room to improve still. We've recently seen that it only takes a injury in the wrong moment to derail a project, but their future at the moment is really bright. Wouldn't be surprised if they're the first team repeating a title after 7 different winners.

Good memory lol It was ball junkie who I think has been banned since but he bet me loser leaves the board that Shaedon Sharpe would have a better career than Chet Holmgren. I declined because my argument was it was hard to define a winner (i.e. when do you call it? It could always be argued that Chet will have a career ending injury and Sharpe will be an All Star next year or whatever). Safe to say I would have won that bet though I think. A lot of people on this board, like a lot, gave Chet the "skinny twig, will get broken in half by LeBron" hand waive treatment around that draft. I'm happy we got Paolo (who I had at #2) in hindsight, I think Paolo was the better fit for us, he's more of a #1 option type whereas Chet is more of an elite role player type with All NBA calibre defense.

Yup I’m not a fan of SGA getting to the line at will when most of the time he’s using that off arm to push off the defender and create separation. It should be called an offensive foul every time. He was 8-27 shooting in that game and yet still ends up with 29 points. The refs bailed him out one too many times and it honestly takes the fun out of basketball when the officiating is so one sided. Indiana was on their way to a title before Hali got injured.

Was literally planning on making a post about this. We should push harder now, use the MLE, see if you can add a real playoff contributor on draft night with pick #25 and Jett and seconds and stuff. Just go for it.

Congrats to OKC. I agree with CT here. I don’t dislike them or anything, but i do hate that the media is pushing and praising them for their defense. They were beating up on TJ and he couldn’t get a foul call. On the other hand you can barely touch them. NBA really pushed for them to win it all. TJ is a great player. His play kept them in the game but he also had very many crucial turnovers, with the way he overdribbles. On another side not, i hate to see another star player go down and ruin his career. Makes me really appreciate how conservative our medical staff is and not rushing anybody back. looks like Haliburton tore his achilles. if that is the case, the east opened the door for about anybody now. We have to be aggressive now and take that opportunity. Trade for Sexton. Young bull would be such a great energy spark off the bench.

Bane was an amazing move for us! I've liked him a lot since he came into the league. IMO he is better than anybody we could have drafted with any of the picks we traded.

Still OKC, Indiana on the road without a healthy Hali I don't think have enough but I'm rooting for them. TJ McConnell might actually be my finals MVP, he's been balling (it's probably actually Siakam if Indy win and JDub if OKC win).

Bane is the best SG Orlando has had since T-Mac. Anybody disagree with that?

Some people will still have doubts when we win the championship too hahahaha

A HEALTHY Magic team as constructed right now, after the Bane trade and before the draft and free agency SHOULD BE THE NUMBER ONE SEED IN THE EASTERN CONFERENCE NEXT SEASON If this is not happening around Feb 2026, we can re-visit this post and discuss.

My bad, you're right about the way I came across in that last post so apologies for that. I think you know I've watched a lot of Magic basketball these past few years. I guess from my perspective there's not a lot of talk about why specifically Desmond Bane doesn't address the problems with our offense and more just general talk about him not being a PG which, in my opinion, is a criticism lacking in any actual substance because it's surface deep and focusing only on the label and looking past all the things Bane does incredibly well, of which theres been ample discussion. I want to be clear I don't view this move as a fix all for our offense, but I also wouldn't view acquiring Chris Paul or Tyus Jones or even Darius Garland as a fix all for our offense. The offense needs more movement of both ball and players, it needs a structure and a flow that can be relied upon to generate open looks. I believe we have the pieces, at least as a starting unit, when healthy to be at least an average offense, which combined with our defense should be enough (and would be the best offense we've had post Dwight). But now it's on Mose to make that work and it's on Weltman and Parker to continue to surround what we do have with extra pieces or even extra coaches that help us on that end.

Sorry to be a Debbie downer to your premature championship parade but you don’t win championships or even become a contender over night. Let’s actually win a playoff series first before we start having championship aspirations. I’m certainly happy Weltman finally made a move to address our shooting concerns but I’m in the camp that still believes we need a good point guard to really unlock this offense. I get that Paolo and Franz CAN initiate the offense for stretches of the game but SHOULD they do it is a completely different question, hear me out. Taking the ball out of our stars hands isn’t necessarily a bad thing when you have 2 guys at the wings who are great at cutting and excellent at finishing at the rim. We hardly take advantage of this aspect of their games because our offense relies on too much iso ball instead of having more off ball movement and getting other players involved in the offense. Paolo himself even stated last offseason he wanted us to bring in a pg so he wouldn’t have as much ball handling responsibility having to initiate the offense. This would allow him to focus more on his play down low, which would result in easier baskets and theoretically more chances to get to the free throw line. Same could be applied to Franz with the way he finishes around the rim. He would get so many more easy chances around the rim by simply cutting to the basket and having a player that can actually get him the ball. So while I’m ecstatic about the Bane trade I, honestly don’t think he’s the missing piece and that we’re still a year or two away from actually competing for a championship. Either way this should be an exiting season and hopefully one without so many injuries. Can’t wait to watch the team grow, Go Magic!

Thank you for that helpful characterization. If you’ve watched the Magic these past few years, you’ve seen pretty bad offense. You’ve seen guys with better numbers elsewhere get plugged in and become worse. The question is if Bane is the guy who can change that around, and if he’ll be given the opportunity to do so. Our offense is pretty set in its ways. I guess we’ll find out next season. Sorry you don’t like this discussion (what else are you supposed to do on a forum?). Should we just all cheer the move 100% even if some of us have doubts?

I think that's a very fair assessment. At this point it's not clear to me whether Bane or Suggs would have the primary role of bringing the ball up the floor and setting up the offense, but as you point out it won't really matter if the offense doesn't evolve along the lines you mention in your comment.

Have you ever seen Desmond Bane play? Because he plays nothing like KCP.

I think he is well on his way to being the elite 3-D player that Shine envisions, but with his drive and work ethic, I honestly believe that he can become much more. I think he is a smart enough player to know that he can't continue to punish his body/keep getting injured; it's just a matter of whether he can maintain the fire that he plays with, but be a touch more under control/careful of his body. I think his play while both Paolo and Franz were out gave us a glimpse of what is there to be tapped, and I think he's ready to do what it takes to tap into it. Remember, he is still only 24, so I don't think we've seen his peak.

I think we need to scrap these traditional positions out of our heads. Just like we set the 4 out era, we are looking to create something unique again. Basically positionless basketball. The playmaking will be done by our forwards for the most part. We are playing through them. It’s hell for opposing teams! I don’t think we will see a PG who will take the ball out of Franz and Paolos hands.

I’m gonna miss you, Cole! Wish it could’ve worked out here and wish you the best going forward. Truly a fun player to watch, and epic in the locker room and post game interviews. Won’t be the same without your moxie! And before anyone asks, no I will not be making a thread for Caldwell-Nope

There you go! Edit: ooh... Bane's got muscles. No one can push him around. He's got LeBron James thickness. Bane can definitely hold his ground and not turn the ball over while making a move. :)

". . .TMF is gonna be sad :)"

There are approximately 3,048 hours left until the start of the next NBA season. That is a lot of checking!!

great win now move.

Let’s put the pieces we gave up in context real quick to the folks thinking we overpaid: KCP - absolutely awful for us last year. Old. Bad contract. Glad to get out. Cole - most inconsistent basketball player I’ve ever laid eyes on. We won’t miss him. Both players we gave up were straight up unplayable in the playoffs. 2025 pick 16 - Meh. Not a lotto pick, no harm here 2026 pick swap - probably the only actually valuable asset we gave up in the trade 2028 unprotected 1st - this pick will be in the 20s or later 2029 pick swap - Highly doubt this conveys, Memphis would have to finish better than us to want to use it. 2030 pick swap - this pick will be in the 20s or later. At the end of the day we spent 2 bad players, one good pick and 3 late firsts to get a fringe 50/40/90 guy who doesn’t sacrifice our defensive identity. This was a home run. Stop listening to the talking heads on Twitter that don’t know how to critically think and overreact to every thing. We’ve been begging for a move, now that we made a home run swing, let’s not ***** about it, please. And happy Father’s Day to the dads out there!

The Desmond Bane trade today is our Rashard Lewis/Horace Grant move for this era of Magic basketball. A move to put us from a good team to a title contender. Can’t freakin wait to see how this goes!

Also LMAO at "4 unprotected first round picks" when one of them is pick 16 in this draft. That's about as unprotected as a guy who's already had a vasectomy not using a condom.

Checking in to say I love this deal. Bane is a fantastic two-way guard who fits the culture and timeline of our team. Plus, he's a fantastic shooter and passer who averages more assists than anyone on the Magic (and even more than guys like D. White). And Bane is also signed long-term. Kudos to Weltman for swinging for the fences. Now do we still have options moving forward? Absolutely. We still have young talent on the roster in AB and TDS, plus guys like JI, WCJ, and Goga who could fetch us talent. And if push comes to shove, we could still move Suggs or even Wagner to better balance out the roster. Again Bane is a legit second-tier stud entering his prime. Shout-out to Weltman for going for it.

Bane is one of three NBA players with 800 made 3-pointers and 40% 3-point shooting since entering the league in 2020, and has shot 43.2% on catch and shoot 3s in last 5 seasons. He'll be a major boost for the Magic, who ranked last in 3-point field-goal percentage this season.

Personally don't care where he went to college or what excites the fans on draft day and I don't think that should be factored into decisions. I just want to pick the best basketball player. Winning excites the fans. Fans booed the draft pick of Franz Wagner.