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- Past hour
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Minnesota is now in full disaster mode. Wow, did this escalate quickly.
- Today
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Butler Will guarantee us a playoff run and if we trade for him now we will be in a better position to sign him next year.
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Because you have a better chance now and the cost isn't great
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lol again, why trade for him now with all these complicated scenarios when you can keep what you have to make moves for next offseason and woo him then. Ross and Vuc are off the books, and Mozgov and Fournier have one year left making them much easier to move. Butler doesn't guarantee us a playoff spot either.
- Yesterday
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The only way money is going to kill you (with the exception of injury) is if you have to give Gordon, Bamba, and Isaac near max deals. And if you're in the position where you have to choose between max contract players, what a great dilemma to have.
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Ok. Jones is a good defender. Butler and Jones vs Augustin and Fournier is a significant improvement If part of the deal about resigning him is he's pulling another free agent then you're fine and don't really need to concern yourself with money. You have (big money free agent)-Butler-Isaac-Gordon-Bamba. Depending on additional free agent signings you can stay under the luxury tax from now through 2022 with relative ease even if you max out Isaac which might be premature to consider him a max guy but for the sake of argument let's do that. 2023 if you max Isaac and max Bamba you can't afford to resign Gordon but if you pay Isaac 20 million and Bamba 20 million you can pay Gordon 20 million and fill out your roster and you'll still be only in the 150 million total roster salary range. That sounds like a crazy amount but you should be looking at a 145ish million mark before the luxury tax starts. 2024 your big name free agent this summer comes off the books and Butler is an expiring contract so you can look to transition into a new roster construction around almost 27 year old Isaac and 26 year old Bamba Long story short we'll definitely be under the tax for the 19-20 and 20-21 seasons. We'll have a choice on if we want to spend big in 21-22, we'll be over the tax 22-23 and we'll rebuild in 23-24 successfully avoiding the repeater tax for all years of Butler's deal. Money isn't an issue when two of the main pieces are on rookie deals and you signed a third piece to a cap friendly decreasing contract.
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Tyus Jones is far smarter and a better defender than Augustin
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I understand you are saying we would only take back Dieng if we included Mozgov/Augustin, and get back Jones. Dieng/Mozgov is a wash, as neither probably plays here, and either probably gets waived and stretched at some point. My question is, is the Jones/Butler combo really that much of an upgrade over Augustin/Fournier? I don't know enough about Jones' defense to argue one way or the other; but from a straight numbers pov, it's really about a wash. Trade machine says the dealt works; and gives us a +4 games result. My problem is, what happens at the end of the season, when we either lose Butler for nothing, or have to pay him way too much to keep him. Years 1-3 on a "super-max" might not be too bad, but years 4-5 are probably going to be painful, unless you think he is going to continue being as productive into his mid-30's.
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That's not the point.
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He doesn't really get opportunities or put up stats but he's a really positive player for some reason. It's not really a "game over we have our starting point guard" situation. More like a "its kind of pointless to trade for Butler and run a Grant-briscoe-caupain point guard rotation" situation. So at least with Jones you're keeping that position afloat with a competent player
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I guess that makes sense. Still expensive for the team though. Is Tyus any good? It looks like he grades out as adequate back up right now, and he has had three years in the league.
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I'm not sure that Jones is really any kind of an upgrade over Augustin. He's a 35% 3-pt shooter, and his per 36 numbers are about the same, or slightly worse.
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We'd probably waive and stretch him
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We don't have any real need for him.
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The only way I'm taking back dieng from Minnesota is if we send Augustin and mozgov back to them and we get Tyus Jones in the deal to cover our starting pg spot.
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Ok so apparently I didn't have a good read on the Minnesota situation and they do want to unload dieng in the deal. But this is interesting from Zach Lowe
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Ok. So from what I've read, Jimmy Butler has some womanizing problems. I've also heard that he had an altercation with Dwayne Wade and Gabrielle Union. Most of all, he slept with Karl Towns girlfriend. I don't think he respects boundaries like with Paul George and Roy Hibbert early on. There was also Jason Richardson and Steve Nash. I"m going to have to red flag this one because he could pose an internal problem. Before going to the Twolves, the bulls fans thought of him as such themselves. There lies a heavy contradiction in what Jimmy want to augment in his teammates. Jimmy must check himself. https://fadeawayworld.net/2018/09/20/report-jimmy-butler-may-have-cheated-with-karl-anthony-towns-girlfriend/
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Everything would be different if he just played defense
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Yeah I can't imagine it's possible. I've entertained it several times but it's really hard to stomach 5 years of cap hit with him. You have to pay this years rookies before he expires. Two years from now the calculus will be different but now he's untradable.
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Maybe they try to move him. It’ll be difficult with that contract.
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It's shocking how little he's improved with the level of talent he has
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Meanwhile, Lowe just released a scathing article about Wiggins. This is cray cray.
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I mean if the only consideration was Butler wanting to leave their best bet is waiting until December. But this situation is so toxic you need to get Butler out of there before media day.
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2018 Official Offseason Thread
Originalticketholder replied to magicdoc1's topic in Orlando Magic Forum
Exactly and in reading what Butler is saying I tend to like your thought about us being the third team and getting a piece that will help us preferably a young PG.. Butler has the advantage and leverage and if he is intent on leaving, as he says, at the end of the year, Minny will have to trade him. Appears he wants to go the Clippers. Fournier may be the best and perfect replacement and we hold that card. Great drama right before the preseason. Hope we are in the talks. -
Thibs is delusional
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