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I'm by no means Walter Clayton Jrs biggest fan, I like him, i'd be happy with drafting him, but I'm not sold he's some star or anything. That being said, inspired by your comment I went to barttorvik to look for similar statistical profiles to him, and now granted I used arbitrary cut off points.. (if you're interested it was: Games Played ≥ 15; Assist % ≥ 20; Ast/TO Ratio ≥ 1.5; 2P FG % ≥ 0.5; 3P FG % ≥ 0.37; 3PA/100 Poss ≥ 12; Free Throw % ≥ 0.8) ..but the only drafted player that met those thresholds (that, again, I derived from Walter Clayton Jrs profile) was 2012 Damian Lillard. But, there were also a bunch of undrafted, non prospect, scoring PGs guys like Max Abmas in 2021, Steven Ashworth in 2023 etc. If you lower some of the thresholds slightly to account for an element of randomness, and filter only for draft picks (because otherwise you get a long long list of random names and filtering for draft picks is kind of short hand for filtering out guys who played in weird low conferences or never had NBA athleticism to be considered a prospect) you get names like: Coby White Jimmer Fredette Trae Young Klay Thompson Cameron Payne Isaiah Cannan Shelvin Mack Jared Butler (Just FYI I feel like we should asterix Trae Young, and to a certain extent Lillard and Thompson because they all scored on more volume than Clayton did and I think were all more clearly NBA caliber offensive creators hence why all were high draft picks) It's a weird list that I think helps to identify the difficulty in evaluating a guy like Clayton, because there have been a lot of star NCAA guards that weren't great NBA players... But he was also statistically very impressive and he lead a team to a national championship which adds sort of 'intangible' points.

I might get eye rolls for this, but watching TJ McConnell impact the finals has me thinking we should address our PG issue by bringing back *drum roll…. Markelle Fultz on the minimum. He was mentored by TJ. We could play him in a lineup where we don’t need him to be a threat to shoot; and he could be in a 10-12 mpg bench role with almost no pressure. If he’s struggling, we pull him. Just thinking of cheap alternatives. It’d be fun to bring him back in a better position to succeed

I'm sure the Magic would love to add a Penny Hardaway or a Magic Johnson but that player is not out there.

Something to consider: The KCP signing was an overpay and a mistake. The Cole extension was a mistake. Many of us also believe the timing of the WCJ extension was a mistake, too.That all being said, I think we need to temper our expectations with WeltHam's ability to sign free agents/pay guys.

I Just seen brook Lopez in Downtown Orlando hmmm

Moe and Caleb both declined

Duncan Robinson declined his player option. He'd interest me at the MLE if we could get a guard another way.

"Legacy"... this is a message board we're all here to talk to real people not some large language models mash up of 300 different search results.

No this is not true. The full mid level exception is available to teams under the luxury tax. Tax payer teams that are below the first apron have access to the tax payer mid level exception. If you use either you actually cannot go over the first apron. You're hard capped at the first apron amount. We're obviously declining the Queen and McClung cap holds so they hold no baring. The Jase cap hold is relevant but the Noah Penda one isn't because the second round pick exception doesn't count against the cap until after July 30th. His eventual salary does have to be factored in though if we do use the MLE and are thus hard capped at the first apron.

You got this right....congrats !!!!

https://x.com/YossiGozlan/status/1937646880508510406 That's a lot of money saved.

OKC is a rare case of a team winning the title with some key players that are still on their rookie contract, and with a ton of assets available for the future (they will reach tax problems as any team, but with a lot more options to fight against that, with all those picks helping them making moves and choices) As a team, they're incredibly young but seem really calm and hard workers at the same time, with a lot of room to improve still. We've recently seen that it only takes a injury in the wrong moment to derail a project, but their future at the moment is really bright. Wouldn't be surprised if they're the first team repeating a title after 7 different winners.

Good memory lol It was ball junkie who I think has been banned since but he bet me loser leaves the board that Shaedon Sharpe would have a better career than Chet Holmgren. I declined because my argument was it was hard to define a winner (i.e. when do you call it? It could always be argued that Chet will have a career ending injury and Sharpe will be an All Star next year or whatever). Safe to say I would have won that bet though I think. A lot of people on this board, like a lot, gave Chet the "skinny twig, will get broken in half by LeBron" hand waive treatment around that draft. I'm happy we got Paolo (who I had at #2) in hindsight, I think Paolo was the better fit for us, he's more of a #1 option type whereas Chet is more of an elite role player type with All NBA calibre defense.

Yup I’m not a fan of SGA getting to the line at will when most of the time he’s using that off arm to push off the defender and create separation. It should be called an offensive foul every time. He was 8-27 shooting in that game and yet still ends up with 29 points. The refs bailed him out one too many times and it honestly takes the fun out of basketball when the officiating is so one sided. Indiana was on their way to a title before Hali got injured.

Was literally planning on making a post about this. We should push harder now, use the MLE, see if you can add a real playoff contributor on draft night with pick #25 and Jett and seconds and stuff. Just go for it.

Congrats to OKC. I agree with CT here. I don’t dislike them or anything, but i do hate that the media is pushing and praising them for their defense. They were beating up on TJ and he couldn’t get a foul call. On the other hand you can barely touch them. NBA really pushed for them to win it all. TJ is a great player. His play kept them in the game but he also had very many crucial turnovers, with the way he overdribbles. On another side not, i hate to see another star player go down and ruin his career. Makes me really appreciate how conservative our medical staff is and not rushing anybody back. looks like Haliburton tore his achilles. if that is the case, the east opened the door for about anybody now. We have to be aggressive now and take that opportunity. Trade for Sexton. Young bull would be such a great energy spark off the bench.

Bane was an amazing move for us! I've liked him a lot since he came into the league. IMO he is better than anybody we could have drafted with any of the picks we traded.

Still OKC, Indiana on the road without a healthy Hali I don't think have enough but I'm rooting for them. TJ McConnell might actually be my finals MVP, he's been balling (it's probably actually Siakam if Indy win and JDub if OKC win).

Bane is the best SG Orlando has had since T-Mac. Anybody disagree with that?

Some people will still have doubts when we win the championship too hahahaha

I thought it would interesting for everyone to see how The National Media ranks our core four. The Ringer Top 100 22. Paolo Banchero 37. Franz Wagner 47. Desmond Bane 62. Jalen Suggs That looks like a pretty good ranking to me.

A HEALTHY Magic team as constructed right now, after the Bane trade and before the draft and free agency SHOULD BE THE NUMBER ONE SEED IN THE EASTERN CONFERENCE NEXT SEASON If this is not happening around Feb 2026, we can re-visit this post and discuss.

My bad, you're right about the way I came across in that last post so apologies for that. I think you know I've watched a lot of Magic basketball these past few years. I guess from my perspective there's not a lot of talk about why specifically Desmond Bane doesn't address the problems with our offense and more just general talk about him not being a PG which, in my opinion, is a criticism lacking in any actual substance because it's surface deep and focusing only on the label and looking past all the things Bane does incredibly well, of which theres been ample discussion. I want to be clear I don't view this move as a fix all for our offense, but I also wouldn't view acquiring Chris Paul or Tyus Jones or even Darius Garland as a fix all for our offense. The offense needs more movement of both ball and players, it needs a structure and a flow that can be relied upon to generate open looks. I believe we have the pieces, at least as a starting unit, when healthy to be at least an average offense, which combined with our defense should be enough (and would be the best offense we've had post Dwight). But now it's on Mose to make that work and it's on Weltman and Parker to continue to surround what we do have with extra pieces or even extra coaches that help us on that end.

Sorry to be a Debbie downer to your premature championship parade but you don’t win championships or even become a contender over night. Let’s actually win a playoff series first before we start having championship aspirations. I’m certainly happy Weltman finally made a move to address our shooting concerns but I’m in the camp that still believes we need a good point guard to really unlock this offense. I get that Paolo and Franz CAN initiate the offense for stretches of the game but SHOULD they do it is a completely different question, hear me out. Taking the ball out of our stars hands isn’t necessarily a bad thing when you have 2 guys at the wings who are great at cutting and excellent at finishing at the rim. We hardly take advantage of this aspect of their games because our offense relies on too much iso ball instead of having more off ball movement and getting other players involved in the offense. Paolo himself even stated last offseason he wanted us to bring in a pg so he wouldn’t have as much ball handling responsibility having to initiate the offense. This would allow him to focus more on his play down low, which would result in easier baskets and theoretically more chances to get to the free throw line. Same could be applied to Franz with the way he finishes around the rim. He would get so many more easy chances around the rim by simply cutting to the basket and having a player that can actually get him the ball. So while I’m ecstatic about the Bane trade I, honestly don’t think he’s the missing piece and that we’re still a year or two away from actually competing for a championship. Either way this should be an exiting season and hopefully one without so many injuries. Can’t wait to watch the team grow, Go Magic!

Thank you for that helpful characterization. If you’ve watched the Magic these past few years, you’ve seen pretty bad offense. You’ve seen guys with better numbers elsewhere get plugged in and become worse. The question is if Bane is the guy who can change that around, and if he’ll be given the opportunity to do so. Our offense is pretty set in its ways. I guess we’ll find out next season. Sorry you don’t like this discussion (what else are you supposed to do on a forum?). Should we just all cheer the move 100% even if some of us have doubts?

I think that's a very fair assessment. At this point it's not clear to me whether Bane or Suggs would have the primary role of bringing the ball up the floor and setting up the offense, but as you point out it won't really matter if the offense doesn't evolve along the lines you mention in your comment.

Have you ever seen Desmond Bane play? Because he plays nothing like KCP.

I think he is well on his way to being the elite 3-D player that Shine envisions, but with his drive and work ethic, I honestly believe that he can become much more. I think he is a smart enough player to know that he can't continue to punish his body/keep getting injured; it's just a matter of whether he can maintain the fire that he plays with, but be a touch more under control/careful of his body. I think his play while both Paolo and Franz were out gave us a glimpse of what is there to be tapped, and I think he's ready to do what it takes to tap into it. Remember, he is still only 24, so I don't think we've seen his peak.

AND HOW MANY TIMES WILL THE MAGIC PLAY ON NATIONAL TV THIS SEASON ????? A LOT !!!!!

I think we need to scrap these traditional positions out of our heads. Just like we set the 4 out era, we are looking to create something unique again. Basically positionless basketball. The playmaking will be done by our forwards for the most part. We are playing through them. It’s hell for opposing teams! I don’t think we will see a PG who will take the ball out of Franz and Paolos hands.

I’m gonna miss you, Cole! Wish it could’ve worked out here and wish you the best going forward. Truly a fun player to watch, and epic in the locker room and post game interviews. Won’t be the same without your moxie! And before anyone asks, no I will not be making a thread for Caldwell-Nope

There you go! Edit: ooh... Bane's got muscles. No one can push him around. He's got LeBron James thickness. Bane can definitely hold his ground and not turn the ball over while making a move. :)

". . .TMF is gonna be sad :)"

Wolf, Clayton, Brea, Broome not American? i don’t actually scout nationality, only skill. And i was looking for a backup center. For some reason Americans don’t produce great centers too much. Otherwise they didn’t have to entice Embiid to play for the US. That said, i think that was a bad take. I hope you know it

There are approximately 3,048 hours left until the start of the next NBA season. That is a lot of checking!!

This is a shower thought: One thing I really love about this deal is that it's not Weltman just looking at who's available and being like "sure I guess this guy will help us". Clearly he identified Bane as the guy, put his assets on the table and got the deal done for the guy he wanted.

great win now move.

Let’s put the pieces we gave up in context real quick to the folks thinking we overpaid: KCP - absolutely awful for us last year. Old. Bad contract. Glad to get out. Cole - most inconsistent basketball player I’ve ever laid eyes on. We won’t miss him. Both players we gave up were straight up unplayable in the playoffs. 2025 pick 16 - Meh. Not a lotto pick, no harm here 2026 pick swap - probably the only actually valuable asset we gave up in the trade 2028 unprotected 1st - this pick will be in the 20s or later 2029 pick swap - Highly doubt this conveys, Memphis would have to finish better than us to want to use it. 2030 pick swap - this pick will be in the 20s or later. At the end of the day we spent 2 bad players, one good pick and 3 late firsts to get a fringe 50/40/90 guy who doesn’t sacrifice our defensive identity. This was a home run. Stop listening to the talking heads on Twitter that don’t know how to critically think and overreact to every thing. We’ve been begging for a move, now that we made a home run swing, let’s not ***** about it, please. And happy Father’s Day to the dads out there!

The Desmond Bane trade today is our Rashard Lewis/Horace Grant move for this era of Magic basketball. A move to put us from a good team to a title contender. Can’t freakin wait to see how this goes!

Also LMAO at "4 unprotected first round picks" when one of them is pick 16 in this draft. That's about as unprotected as a guy who's already had a vasectomy not using a condom.

Checking in to say I love this deal. Bane is a fantastic two-way guard who fits the culture and timeline of our team. Plus, he's a fantastic shooter and passer who averages more assists than anyone on the Magic (and even more than guys like D. White). And Bane is also signed long-term. Kudos to Weltman for swinging for the fences. Now do we still have options moving forward? Absolutely. We still have young talent on the roster in AB and TDS, plus guys like JI, WCJ, and Goga who could fetch us talent. And if push comes to shove, we could still move Suggs or even Wagner to better balance out the roster. Again Bane is a legit second-tier stud entering his prime. Shout-out to Weltman for going for it.

It's a big swing. Don't really care all that much about the picks because I legitimately think this makes us a contender. Sucks we gave up the Suns swap but maybe it was that or AB and I still personally have a lot of belief in AB. We gave up what we needed to to acquire a 26 year old near all star under contract for the next 5 years. Bane is a great shooter and a good secondary creator who's already played in 22 playoff games. Look it'll either work or it won't but half of y'all *****ed about Weltman doing nothing and here he is, doing something massive that gives us a clear window to be a contender.

Personally don't care where he went to college or what excites the fans on draft day and I don't think that should be factored into decisions. I just want to pick the best basketball player. Winning excites the fans. Fans booed the draft pick of Franz Wagner.

10 Teams passed on SGA. He wasn’t a clear Top 5 pick at all. Not even talked about, mainly due to physical limitations. you had multiple players drafted after SGA, who were ranked higher in mocks leading up to the draft. Namely Miles Bridges, Michael Porter,even Zaire Smith. I guarantee you that we’d have drafted Vassell or Haliburton if they would have fell to us. At least it was reported! Anfernee Simons drafted in the 20s that year. We wanted Trae or Luka in that draft, focused to draft up. We had no chance. If anything you could say winning meaningless games with EP and the core was really killing us. I remember how Dallas tanked so crazy hard. We played them twice and they sat about anybody who could score a basket. That’s what i criticize. And as far as me. The way the draft went i was torn on Maxey or Cole. Ultimately i got hyped for Cole and thought he’d develop into a Kemba Walker 2.0. Which honestly i still think he can have that type of impact.

Apparently Celtics are willing to listen to offers for Derrick White. Can I interest you in Jonathan Isaac, Cole Anthony (to a third team) and a bunch of picks? Lol

Incidentally here are some names that JI + Cole gets you to in the region of salary matching (NOTES: this is not a comment on whether any of these would or should be targets, some names are marginally under or over matching so would potentially require incidental other pieces to make work). JI + Cole only: Dejounte Murray Kristaps Porzingis CJ McCollum Andrew Wiggins Derrick White RJ Barrett Anfernee Simons Devin Vassell Terry Rozier Tobias Harris John Collins Nic Claxton Trey Murphy Then if you presume we'd also be willing to give up Jett in a trade like this then... JI + Cole + Jett: Jrue Holiday Immanuel Quickly Jerami Grant Jordan Poole Tyler Herro

I really hope that KCP has some value still around the league (contenders) as I really see trading him as the only solution to stop the Suggs is a PG illusion (no way there're enough SG minutes for both if we keep them). KCP + fillers+picks for a PG should be our priority IMO, but I fear FO doesn't see it the same way. Suggs is the other player we would need to give up for getting something valuable back, but I fully understand it's an hard decision. The package made with our "unwanted" players (basically all the ones that doesn't perform in playoffs) with short contracts + picks would be interesting only for teams that are rebuilding or with the top priority of avoiding luxury tax and apron in the future.

https://x.com/orlandomagic/status/1929901123407675829?s=46 nice day for some New Jerseys. Magic bringing back the pinstripes baby! Love the color white and blue, Hope we see the middle one as little as possible

I'm still holding out hope that we can swing a Devin Booker trade. It's a very long shot but it'd be very exciting.