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I said in July. It's fine that they want to cheat a bit and develop while they try to win but the value of Vucevic, Ross, and Aminu isn't going to be what they do for us this year, it's going to be how tradable they are before July 2021. That's our window for making big moves before we need to resign Isaac and fultz. If we can't flip them for positive long term stuff then the signings were really stupid and short sighted. If we can turn them into any long term piece it was smart.

So Fournier got in and all of the sudden we are down by 6.

Mofo got paid so he didn’t care obviously. His soft azz got even softer. For all the magic fans i say to Vooch. Thanks jack azz!!!

Fultz is showing flashes of being able to create his own offense. Of course we need a high volume first option on offense. But that's easier said than done when we don't have cap room to sign a first option on offense, every first option on offense has been more interested in joining another first option for the last several years so we weren't ever considered a viable free agent destination for stars. Boston and LA have held the trade market hostage until this year. And we haven't passed on any real first option guys in the draft. Some have developed into first options unexpectedly but the first option guys in our range have been DSJ and Monk who suck.

18 minutes is nothing if he was the player he was projected to be, he would be getting over 25. Batum injury is a blessing. Your wrong about our veterans, they are the offensive core of this team and i'm glad you brought up those 4 players. Two of them just had career years and got paid for it. I know our defensive players are performing, it's almost like your proving my point. For years we said Fournier,Vooch and Dj were good players but not great.Ross was well known to be a streaky shooter.Our observations seem on point.If you stick with mediocre players you get middling results.I think the fact that they are all slumping to start the season is a bit shocking. We don't have a star to lift us in desperate times, we need a team effort. I said this is about the worst thing that could happen because we pinned our offensive hope on our veterans.None of our youngsters are setup to explode offensively like other young players around the league. At least this year its really about our vets.Biggest thing we have going is health, nobody is hurt yet.We know those guys will start shooting, i don't think Ross and Vucevic are the type of players to get fat and happy on a big contract. Like you said they are ok contracts because i think they will be steady all 4 years.However, we already saw the ceiling last year,I think that was it. It's really going back to the same argument for 4 years with the Magic.Most of us think our vets are 3rd or 4th options on a real contender.And the problem i see twith our young players i don't see an offensive star, we still need a volume scorer. It really seems like the last 2 years we passed on alot of offense. I'm tired of looking in the box scores every night and seeing so many people scoring 30 and nobody on our team can even get 20.

Wait. Monk is playing 18 mpg, Batum isn't benched, he fractured a finger, Mkg isn't missing time because he's underperforming, he's missing time because he's on an expiring contract and plays the same position as their last two first round picks. And I think you're completely misdiagnosing our offensive issues. It's not "unless Vucevic or Ross get hot we're cooked". If Vucevic, Ross, and Fournier were simply bad instead of horrible last night we win and have a great offense. Magic fans keep describing a situation where our ok offensive players are playing ok and "if we didn't play so many defense only guys we'd be able to score" but that's not what's happening at all. Our defensive guys are performing. It's the offensive guys who are causing the problems. We had a 115 offensive rating in the first half which basically means we were on pace to score 112 points for the game despite poor shooting. We had a 104 offensive rating in the third quarter. Which is fine. Not great. About average. We had a 65 offensive rating in the fourth quarter which is basically playing on pace for 63 points for the game. We would have won that game easy if Vucevic, Ross, Fournier, and augustin shot better than 2/12 in the fourth.

I think in some ways this is our worst nightmare because we just locked down our roster for two years. Look around the league. Some teams are playing new guys big minutes because of injuries, some teams because of new coaches or low expectations.Look at Charlotte and Washington. Both those teams were cooked last year with high payroll and huge non productive contracts.Charlotte let Kemba walk and still had Batum,Biyombo and Gilchrist contracts. They acquired a few second round players and starting benching the under performers. Batum, Monk and Gilchrist are not getting minutes. Bacon, Graham and PJ are getting heavy minutes.The point is they made a few changes and it's working.I'm not saying they will have a better record then us later on, just that they made some changes. Same thing in Washington. Bertans and Bryant were sneaky good pick-ups.Wagner was an incredible easy trade swap. Troy Brown is a big guard looking good for them, as is Hatchimura. Both are from the last two drafts and look like they can put the ball in the basket. Do they have the ceiling of our last two rookies? Probably not, but they sure look like basketball players and not projects. Whole point of this is, when it comes to scoring the basket we are locked in to one archetype of player. Without Ross and Vooch getting hot, its really tough for us. Gordon, Isaac and Fultz are not offensive players.They might have an occasional big night, but it's really not their thing. Really wanted to find a gem like Devonte Graham, but we rounded out our roster with guys like Aminu,MCW,Bamba and Jefferson. Again, once the shots start falling we will overtake Charlotte and Washington in the standings.Look out though, because they both might have a better future just by being a little more flexible with their roster.Don't even get me started on the Hawks and Heat.

Fournier would start for several teams. He's not as bad as people think he is. However I don't understand why Fournier is unbenchable in games like last night when he's getting killed on both sides. And I don't know why we continue to run our offense through him when fultz, Gordon, and Vucevic are on the court.

horrible team to watch i feel even games we win will be depressing.

We’re not the last ranked offense in the NBA for nothing.

Trade Fournier to China for Jimmer. I’m serious

Refs had the right call and changed it. Christ. Once a joke. Always a joke.

That play should have been a goal tend. Noel interfered with the basket. Can't trust the ref to make any calls right for the Magic. SMH

I've said his whole career Fournier would be a great sixth man. I think he'd likely be better than Ross, because he CAN find different ways to contribute on offense. Ross is basically draining tough shots or actively hurting our offense.

Be nice if our 100 million centre would at least try and protect the rim

Maybe Okeke can save us! lol

The stats have never liked Fournier as a SF. Somewhat better offensively, but almost unplayable defending most SF.

Fournier is just infuriating to watch play

For us, when he was playing for Denver.

So much better when Fournier is not on the floor.

Nuggets (yeah, I get that Jokic isn't their top scorer right now; but he was last year when they dominated, which speaks to your point, since that's still modern NBA team, plus I suspect Jokic leads by the end of the year). How many teams are considered good? 10? if so, that's 2 out of 10 whose likely top scorers are centers. 5 positions means that's about right. 12? Still pretty darn close. 16? Of the 16 playoff teams last year, the top PPG was a center for 3 of those teams: Philly, Orlando, and San Antonio. 3 out of 16 holds that pattern, close enough. Minnesota looks pretty good early riding KAT. AD could certainly be the starting C for the Lakers and they'd still be good. The idea that the NBA isn't friendly to high-scoring centers is just wrong. You can have plenty of success in the NBA with your top scorer as a Center, even today. It's different than it used to be, true. Modern 5's have to be mobile, be able to pass and shoot, and they must be able to competently switch without getting torched every time. Vuc is good for most of that, but he's inconsistent with scoring and defending (he's never particularly good at defending, but sometimes he's survivable with the massive defensive talent that we can surround him with). I'm not a big Vuc fan. But Vuc has not been the problem early in the year. Yes, his %s need to improve. That's the whole team. Everyone is shooting like crap right now. If and when that changes, this team could go on a pretty big run. What's encouraging to me is that I haven't noticed the team as a whole getting lazy on defense when the shots aren't falling. That shows they know their identity is defense. That's exactly what I want to see.

It's called the Fournier effect. Google it.

Let’s be honest there is no point going for 8 th seed with this group. It’s just so *****in depressing. I hate this team so much

Whoever downvoted this post needs a lobotomy.

We are going backwards right in front of our eyes with Evan and Vooch. I’ll keep harping on about it but it’s soul destroying to watch. Get rid of them!!!!!

Tonight’s game hasn’t even started and I’m already angry at the thought of watching Fournier and Vooch. I just can not for the life of me stomach them as Starters, I might check out for a while I think

Thunder blew it up, lost their two best players and still have a better roster than us with a lot more young talent. Great start by Evan and Vooch. Gotta love it

Haha no ****

In the final minute, the refs will do whatever it takes to make sure OKC "wins" this game.

It’s got me *****ed. We’re gonna have to wait it out with him though cos there is no way another team will be dumb enough to trade for him