Run/Gun Might Not Be Right

[D-BoFats 5]

If Brian Hill can't give management his word, why should Bob Vander Weide feel obliged to fulfill Hill's contract?

[Blackhennie 0]

I think we played good def. but our offense was so bad it made use look bad on def at times. With the bad passes, bad plays, thus the turn overs, those things lead to easy buckets. We were one of the better def team in the leauge but we were one of the worse at taking care of the ball. If we could take care of the ball and play better on offense the sky is the limit.

[ball junkie 277]

quote:

Originally posted by Blackhennie:

I think we played good def. but our offense was so bad it made use look bad on def at times. With the bad passes, bad plays, thus the turn overs, those things lead to easy buckets. We were won of the better def team in the leauge but we were one of the worse at taking care of the ball. If we could take care of the ball and play better on offense the sky is the limit.

 

 

Exactly! Man, we were last in the league "by far" in turnovers. Our defense is pretty good as witnessed by my earlier chart.

 

I'll bet you if we would have finished in the middle of the pack this past season in turnovers we could have added 8 to 10 more wins to our victory total. Maybe even got to 50?!

 

Dwight committed a good portion of those I believe. But lets not blame it on the fact that there were no shooters on the floor. Dwight has to learn how to operate in the low-post. Since he's only 21 years old with no college experience we just have to be patient.

 

We also don't have size or a "pure" point guard in Jameer. Jameer is no Kidd or Nash or Parker or Billups. I think you get the idea. That's what scares me about upping the tempo. I don't think Jameer sees the floor well.

 

Again, as this thread suggests, defensive minded teams that execute well in the half-court are the teams that are advancing. The good defensive teams can slow you down then execution in the half-court is imperative.

 

We don't have the experience in the post or a viable point guard to be able to do that consistently right now.

[Blackhennie 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by Blackhennie:

I think we played good def. but our offense was so bad it made use look bad on def at times. With the bad passes, bad plays, thus the turn overs, those things lead to easy buckets. We were won of the better def team in the leauge but we were one of the worse at taking care of the ball. If we could take care of the ball and play better on offense the sky is the limit.

 

 

Exactly! Man, we were last in the league "by far" in turnovers. Our defense is pretty good as witnessed by my earlier chart.

 

I'll bet you if we would have finished in the middle of the pack this past season in turnovers we could have added 8 to 10 more wins to our victory total. Maybe even got to 50?!

 

Dwight committed a good portion of those I believe. But lets not blame it on the fact that there were no shooters on the floor. Dwight has to learn how to operate in the low-post. Since he's only 21 years old with no college experience we just have to be patient.

 

We also don't have size or a "pure" point guard in Jameer. Jameer is no Kidd or Nash or Parker or Billups. I think you get the idea. That's what scares me about upping the tempo. I don't think Jameer sees the floor well.

 

Again, as this thread suggests, defensive minded teams that execute well in the half-court are the teams that are advancing. The good defensive teams can slow you down then execution in the half-court is imperative.

 

We don't have the experience in the post or a viable point guard to be able to do that consistently right now.

 

agreed. the only thing that sperates us from the the best teams in the leauge is a better offense. When our points Arroyo and Nelson (I put them both in for a reaon )where on the top of there games. We were the best team in the east. (looking at the start of 06-07 and the end of 05-06). I see our team's talent and we are better then cleveland, we are better then the nets, we are better then most of the teams we match up aganist. But our system and the mix of players we use hold us back because we dont score and take care of the ball.

 

If you hold a team to 1 point but you cant score you still lose. And it does not matter that it was close or not. at the end it was a L.

[The Solution 0]

quote:

Originally posted by D-BoFats:

If Brian Hill can't give management his word, why should Bob Vander Weide feel obliged to fulfill Hill's contract?

 

Good question. If I were an attorney, I would take the case.

 

If BVW were up to it, the case would be arbitrated by the NBA. The likely result would be a settlement much like the Larry Brown dismissal in NY. We shall see.

[Undisputed4 0]

quote:

Originally posted by O-dub:

quote:

Originally posted by Undisputed4:

That made no sense. You said all the fast break teams were eliminated by defensive teams. But Golden State eliminated Dallas.

 

And Denver wasnt really a fast break team. Only when Iverson got it in the open court. Most of the time they liked to get Carmelo on the low block.

 

 

Phoenix plays decent D. They have some good individual defenders like Raja and Kurt Thomas. Its just Tony Parker killed Nash and Tim Duncan killed everyone. Plus the Spurs were a more veteran team.

 

Phoenix runs alot but they do it with precision. They can play a half court game if necessary.

 

Dallas hasnt been a true run n gun team since Nelson left. Avery Johnson has been trying to get them to a half court team. Nash and Finley left who were the main guys when Nelson was there.

 

Are you kidding me. When Denver played us, the fast break they asses right off of our turnovers making our D look like ******. The did this with other teams to.

 

Saying that Dallas ins't run and gun when they were one of the top 5 run and gun teams is another excuse.

 

Overall, these fast breaking teams had to play each other either way so the "BEST" defense and ball handling wins of course.

 

In the Warriors vs. Mavericks case, the Warriors were more of the gunning team and younger athletic team therefore making them the victor. Warriors lead the NBA in fast break points the regular season. The Spurs being a veterean team? Ha!!!! The Suns were better overall against the whole NBA and finished second in the standings.

 

You have no clue do you, San Antonio still has the players and don't make me have to remind you of Duncan's 9 blocks in that closer vs. the suns. Bowen doesn't play either. He'll try to injure a fool.

 

As for the case of Utah, they have the overall killing defender in Andrei Kirilenko who provided some offense but mostly defense. Okur, Giricek, and Fisher are the others who simply don't mess around on D.

 

Your excusing them just like you would excuse JJ for missing a shot

 

Don't let me have to burn you again another day.

 

First of all there is a difference between playing the MAgic then there is the Spurs.

 

I sayed Tim Duncan killed everyone. I dont know how you got me saying Duncan wasnt good.

 

The Spurs are a veteran team. They have the oldest average age in the league. Most of them have rings too.

 

Derek Fisher is a pretty good defender

 

Dallas is not a run and gun team anymore. They have been trying to get away from this. Run n Gun doesnt win in the playoffs. The Mavs are a situational running team. If they get a long rebound they will run.

 

I am right. So dont try to question it.

[DarkoHero 0]

This is a great thread! I've always said the Suns won't win a 'ship with their style of play. Remember who won the '04 'ship? That was the year that the Lakers were stacked full of talent. Everyone said in the preseason, "Just hand them their rings." But the Pistons, who were not expected to win that series at all, won in 5 games against Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Gary Payton, and co.

 

Defense wins 'ships, not offense.

[Mat 4]

quote:

Originally posted by DarkoHero:

This is a great thread! I've always said the Suns won't win a 'ship with their style of play. Remember who won the '04 'ship? That was the year that the Lakers were stacked full of talent. Everyone said in the preseason, "Just hand them their rings." But the Pistons, who were not expected to win that series at all, won in 5 games against Kobe, Shaq, Malone, Gary Payton, and co.

 

Defense wins 'ships, not offense.

 

TOTALLY AGREE!!!

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by Blackhennie:

I think we played good def. but our offense was so bad it made use look bad on def at times. With the bad passes, bad plays, thus the turn overs, those things lead to easy buckets. We were one of the better def team in the leauge but we were one of the worse at taking care of the ball. If we could take care of the ball and play better on offense the sky is the limit.

 

Don't confuse good defense with grinding the game to a halt. The Cleveland Cavs under Mike Fratello were limiting opponents to 80pts a game. Not because they were defensive jugernauts but because they slowed the game to a snails pace.

 

The Magic aren't much different. They are better than the Johnny Davis era but they aren't that good. They gave up more wide open shots every game then I could count. The Magic are going to hold opponents scoring down when they attempt the lowest field goal attempts in the league. That's the law of averages.

[nbr 15]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

Not because they were defensive jugernauts but because they slowed the game to a snails pace.

 

 

Very true and very evident with our play.

[ball junkie 277]

quote:

Originally posted by nbr3345:

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

Not because they were defensive jugernauts but because they slowed the game to a snails pace.

 

 

Very true and very evident with our play.

 

 

NBR and Emory, you guys are dead wrong on this. I just looked up FG% defense for the league this year. This is a true indicator of how tuff your defense is regardless of the pace of the game. Our FG% defense for the year was 44.90%. Good enough for Number 8 in the league.

 

I'll take it a step further. Our defensive 3-point percentage was 44%. That means our team averaged for the season allowing the opposition to shoot 44% from the 3-point line. It was "by far" the worst in the league! To me that is a reflection of the poor defense of our backcourt(Jameer again anybody). If we could improve on that our defense would have been stifiling.

 

You know who the top two teams were in fg% defense? The Cavs were number 1 at 42.11 and second was the Jazz at 42.12. Hhhhmmmmm... I wonder why those teams are still playing? The Pistons are number 5 at 43.56

 

Turnovers killed this team all season. I don't see how changing the pace to more up-tempo for the Magic is gonna help Jameer. You still have to execute and make decisions. Speeding up the pace would probably cause more miscues.

 

Dwight Howard has to learn how to operate in the post. If there's no room to operate he can't force the issue like he did a thousand times this year.

 

Learning to play in the halfcourt game is vital cause when the playoffs roll around if you can't do it you're doomed!

 

Here's the link if you want to check more stats:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=tmcompare...sontype=3&league=nba

 

It was really interesting!

[FENDI 4]

quote:

Dwight Howard has to learn how to operate in the post. If there's no room to operate he can't force the issue like he did a thousand times this year.

yes, Dwight has to learn how to operate in the post be it for the playoffs or not, but if we decide to run, his post game won't be exposed a lot.