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2019-2020 Official Trade Ideas Thread

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2 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

I'm not trading AG for Russell. How about we actually play the dude at his proper position and don't mess him around as much as we have. Asking him to do things that are not his strengths. I might be berated for this. But I'm giving him another summer and then see what he's like by the deadline next year. I think he's gonna blow up with us. I still believe that

    Ok, right on, let me tell you something. During the whole rebuild the Magic drafted two players who i wanted them to draft before the draft and we actually had a chance to draft. Meaning if they were actually drafted before we had a chance i'm not counting them.Not counting Embiid, Porzingis,Tatum,Luka,Trea etc.......

    Those two players were Gordon and Sabonis. I'm far from a good Gm, i wanted Noel in the Oladipo draft. I'm only telling you i'm a fan of Gordon.Gordon needs to be on a team that has stars the other teams key on. Who is that here? If you can tell me how we can solve this i'm all ears. 

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30 minutes ago, hootie249 said:

    Ok, right on, let me tell you something. During the whole rebuild the Magic drafted two players who i wanted them to draft before the draft and we actually had a chance to draft. Meaning if they were actually drafted before we had a chance i'm not counting them.Not counting Embiid, Porzingis,Tatum,Luka,Trea etc.......

    Those two players were Gordon and Sabonis. I'm far from a good Gm, i wanted Noel in the Oladipo draft. I'm only telling you i'm a fan of Gordon.Gordon needs to be on a team that has stars the other teams key on. Who is that here? If you can tell me how we can solve this i'm all ears. 

Isn't the consensus management is hoping that Fultz becomes that star? They both had great, complimentary games yesterday and only appeared out of the action when the two man game got a hold of the ball.

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I'm a Gordon fan. I've said before he's very valuable beside Isaac. He also seems to be starting to thrive off of Fultz. I'm very glad we didn't trade him, because I want to see how he and Fultz and Isaac progress together for a while longer before I would let him go. If Chuma is really good, maybe you have to cash in that chip eventually and use Gordon to improve. But we don't know yet if we even can afford to lose Gordon, in my opinion, considering how well he plays off of the two best future pieces we have. To me - and I think most of the board agrees - the main goal moving forward should be getting away from Evan and Vuc running the offense. I don't even think we have to get rid of both of them to do that. I like a lot of what I see from our offense when just Vuc is out, and the same when just Evan is out. One of those guys alone isn't enough to freeze out Gordon and Fultz; but, together, they are too comfortable with running the same inefficient two-man game they have for years, especially in important end of game situations. I much prefer the way we've seen a few times when Fultz and Gordon take control at the end of games. I really think Gordon and Fultz together can be special, if we let them figure it out together. But that requires the training wheels (Vuc/Evan offense) to come off.

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1 hour ago, South_Aussie_Magic said:

Isn't the consensus management is hoping that Fultz becomes that star? They both had great, complimentary games yesterday and only appeared out of the action when the two man game got a hold of the ball.

Pretty much this is what I was about to say. Fultz barring setbacks is going to be a star in the league. Issac is also going to be a star I feel. What we need to do is upgrade SG with a Beal type and upgrade the bench. I also STILL strongly feel Gordon can become a star is his own right. He's finally got a excellent PG to play with. Look at who he has had over the years and what mess he's had to deal with. I honestly believe he's about to blossom finally. 

Fultz.. AG.. Issac are the future. Whose to say Bamba and Chuma wont be something substantial also. I want to really see a lineup of Fultz, Chuma, Isaac, AG & Mo at some point next season. 

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51 minutes ago, Justin Jaudon said:

I'm a Gordon fan. I've said before he's very valuable beside Isaac. He also seems to be starting to thrive off of Fultz. I'm very glad we didn't trade him, because I want to see how he and Fultz and Isaac progress together for a while longer before I would let him go. If Chuma is really good, maybe you have to cash in that chip eventually and use Gordon to improve. But we don't know yet if we even can afford to lose Gordon, in my opinion, considering how well he plays off of the two best future pieces we have. To me - and I think most of the board agrees - the main goal moving forward should be getting away from Evan and Vuc running the offense. I don't even think we have to get rid of both of them to do that. I like a lot of what I see from our offense when just Vuc is out, and the same when just Evan is out. One of those guys alone isn't enough to freeze out Gordon and Fultz; but, together, they are too comfortable with running the same inefficient two-man game they have for years, especially in important end of game situations. I much prefer the way we've seen a few times when Fultz and Gordon take control at the end of games. I really think Gordon and Fultz together can be special, if we let them figure it out together. But that requires the training wheels (Vuc/Evan offense) to come off.

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2 hours ago, hootie249 said:

    Ok, right on, let me tell you something. During the whole rebuild the Magic drafted two players who i wanted them to draft before the draft and we actually had a chance to draft. Meaning if they were actually drafted before we had a chance i'm not counting them.Not counting Embiid, Porzingis,Tatum,Luka,Trea etc.......

    Those two players were Gordon and Sabonis. I'm far from a good Gm, i wanted Noel in the Oladipo draft. I'm only telling you i'm a fan of Gordon.Gordon needs to be on a team that has stars the other teams key on. Who is that here? If you can tell me how we can solve this i'm all ears. 

We allow the time needed for Fultz and Isaac to grow. Boom there are our stars. Gordon fits out timeline still. He's not some aging veteran. He fits with Isaac and Fultz perfectly. I'm not trading Gordon unless it is for a clear upgrade or enough assets to obtain a clear upgrade. 

Also I wan't to point out again how important Gordon has been in Isaac's defensive growth. Without Gordon Isaac isn't afforded the ability to roam as much and play the weak side defense that he does. 

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+1 also for me Justin, and if Okeke is going to be good, I don't see as a must considering AG a trading piece even at this point. A frontcourt with all 3 of them could have everything, defense, lenght, 3 point shot, completely switchable. I don't trust Clifford to use all of them together, he likes too much playing a conventional stile, but Okeke will be a rookie next season, he'll start with a bench role, and there's time to consider that option, and maybe in a couple of years there will be another coach too.

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In 7 games in February:

Gordon is logging 35+ minutes, taking 15+ shots, shooting 45.4/41.2 getting 8.3 rebounds, 4.7 assists and 1.3 steals.  Perhaps most importantly, he is getting to the line 5 times a game.

Fultz is logging 32+ minutes, taking 10 shots, shooting 51.5/33.3 getting 3 rebounds, 7.3 assists and 1.6 steals. 

Prior to getting hurt Issac was getting around 31 minutes, taking 10 shots, shooting 45.9/31.0, 7 rebounds, 2.3 blocks and 1.7 steals.

 

Unfortunately, small market teams don't generally land big FA anymore.  Outside money in a big market makes that landing spot more attractive.  So the Magic must either get its stars through the draft or through trade.  We won't know if this team needs a star until those 3 start getting a combined 45+ shots a game.  What we know is that giving Vuc/Fournier plus any other 45+ shots a game has resulted in a near decade of pretty bad basketball in Orlando (last years 42-40 record being the best by far -still a 1st round exit).  There are 144 minutes to be had at the 3-5 in a game.  Spread those around among Gordon, Isaac, Okeke and Bamba.  Everyone could get 30 minutes and you'd still have 24 minutes for a more traditional low post presence or a more traditional wing.

The problem isn't Gordon blocking Okeke, Isaac and Bamba... it is Vuc.  Vuc's contract is $26 million next year ($24 million average over 3 years).  Moving him this offseason will likely be a salary dump returning very little of interest.  Teams either have a center, don't play a style that would warrant paying Vuc $24 million a year or don't have a need for an aging center to screw-up their rebuild; like he will do here moving forward.  I get why Weltman felt he had to keep the team together, but giving Vuc a 4 year deal was just bad.     

   

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Stolen from another forum. Orlando Pinstripedpost.

Gordon already played 390 games in nba, logged 11 000 min and took 4200 FGA.

it’s clear what he is and what he isn’t.

Do you think best days are ahead of Payton, Randle, Stauskas, Vonleh, TJ Warren too? If not why only keep that hope/hype/expetations for Gordon? ( in life sure, basketball career? Ehhh).
Guy has been in nba for full 6 years.

It’s irrelevant what he did in 7 games, for 48 games he played he has been mediocre to say a least. Almost every player has periods of time during season when he plays better or worst. There was period of time when Hezonja averaged like 17 and 6 and we know how that went. Payton averaged triple double for 5 games straight last year. Did it matter in long run? Not really.

Gordon might "get started this season" but Magic do not. There is only 27 games left in regular season and it’s looking hard for them to catch Nets. So Magic season will culminate in 4 to 5 game rout against Bucks. Do you know Gordon’s stats against Bucks over 4 games?
8 ppg, 23% FG ,19% for 3. Giannis dwarfs him.

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42 minutes ago, Magicman28 said:

There’s no way we keep AG and JI. 

There's totally a way we keep both. All that would need to happen is for Gordon to maintain the level of play from February for the rest of the season and into the playoffs. That's 19.6 ppg, 8 rebounds and 5 assists on 45/41/71 shooting. 

Unlikely, but that's the way. 

Gordon and Isaac are good together when both guys are shooting league average from 3. It doesn't work if Gordon is shooting 27% and Isaac is at 33%. 

Considering fultz is the objectively better bet for stardom and we can't yet reasonably project fultz to be an above average shooter this team will never work with multiple poor shooters on the floor at the same time. 

The bet with Gordon last summer was his 37% shooting the last half of the season into the playoffs was who he was going to be going forward. 

For him to stay he needs to convince us that his poor shooting from the first half of this year was due to injury and he's really a better shooter than that

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11 minutes ago, hootie249 said:

Stolen from another forum. Orlando Pinstripedpost.

Gordon already played 390 games in nba, logged 11 000 min and took 4200 FGA.

it’s clear what he is and what he isn’t.

Do you think best days are ahead of Payton, Randle, Stauskas, Vonleh, TJ Warren too? If not why only keep that hope/hype/expetations for Gordon? ( in life sure, basketball career? Ehhh).
Guy has been in nba for full 6 years.

It’s irrelevant what he did in 7 games, for 48 games he played he has been mediocre to say a least. Almost every player has periods of time during season when he plays better or worst. There was period of time when Hezonja averaged like 17 and 6 and we know how that went. Payton averaged triple double for 5 games straight last year. Did it matter in long run? Not really.

Gordon might "get started this season" but Magic do not. There is only 27 games left in regular season and it’s looking hard for them to catch Nets. So Magic season will culminate in 4 to 5 game rout against Bucks. Do you know Gordon’s stats against Bucks over 4 games?
8 ppg, 23% FG ,19% for 3. Giannis dwarfs him.

The problem with Gordon analysis is that every data point in the past is him in a limited role fighting for shots in a slow paced conservative execution based offense with a bunch of players than don't put pressure on the defense because they can't attack the paint. 

The premise for Gordon optimism is that a change in team makeup will unlock another step forward in his development given what we see when we put him in those types of lineups and really flashy dominant games from time to time. 

 

I don't think Gordon is ever going to be a star. But his reasonable peak is someone worth keeping, especially if we're talking about a return of someone not all that special like Oubre. 

It'd be different if we were talking about Bridges or a guy with a higher ceiling. 

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