What in the Magic's history suggests they could "EVER"

[Optimist Prime 197]

That was part of my point but more importantly I wanted to show that a certain amount of luck is involved with building a championship contender and luck is a variable that has nothing to do with how good your management is or what you have done in the past. John Gabriel was not a bad GM, he had some bad luck and things went bad. Rob is making good decisions and is putting the team in the best possible position to contend. If he signs a Grant Hill things will get ugly and it won't be because of a mistake he made.

 

That's fair. And what I was hinting at with my superstar comment.

[Emory889 353]

So, we make our two draft picks this summer....Next year we win 52 games....The next year we win 60 games....And than the next year we are NBA Champions !!!

 

Sounds like a plan.....

 

Put me on board.....

 

GO MAGIC !!!!!!!

 

The Thunder won 23 games the season they drafted Westbrook. It took a couple of seasons before they hit the 50 win mark. Even if we are lucky enough to draft the right players, it still takes a couple of seasons for young players to start putting it together enough to win 50 games. Your timetable is completely unrealistic.

 

I'll ask you again, even though you won't answer, what is the alternative? How would you proceed if you were the Magic GM. You clearly don't like what is currently being done so you must have a solution. Otherwise, you are just complaining to complain.

[Murphy13 185]

I for one believe that Thunder model isn't as great as it gets credit for. They were incredibly lucky with Durant, not only in ability but in loyalty; he has never said anything bad or ominous about the Thunder's future. But, how long have we been discussing the Thunder being poised to take over? They have been an up and coming team now for at least 3 years. They snafu'ed the Harden thing, and don't really have much to look forward to young talent wise or cap wise....please spare me the Lamb drivel and Jackson is just OK due to his friendly contract. They are just a very good, albeit mediocre playoff team at this point. Their record is fantastic, but IND MIA and SAS would throttle them, and HOU and LAC probably would win in 7 games. There is even POR as a wildcard.

 

The difference between OKC losing seasons and ours is that much of our talent came as second year players or later, theirs were rooks. If we don't see serious improvement next season from a team perspective then I believe its time to cut ties with some of the players. Nik is too valuable to pass up, as is Oladipo. No one else is playing well enough to be in the long term plans barring improvement IMO. I like O'quinn and Mo a lot as role players...but they aren't necessarily long term pieces either. I desperately want to include Harris in the former list, but will likely fall into the latter come next season for well documented reasons.

 

The Thunder organization lacks the scouting/development team that SA has. That is key to what I hope Rob and co. is trying to build. A little lotto luck with Wiggins/Embiid would be great but I would like to see more well-rounded organizational work than just plopping out a garbage team. Plenty have done that over the years, rarely if ever does that method work in of itself.

[CTMagicUK 1,482]

I for one believe that Thunder model isn't as great as it gets credit for. They were incredibly lucky with Durant, not only in ability but in loyalty; he has never said anything bad or ominous about the Thunder's future. But, how long have we been discussing the Thunder being poised to take over? They have been an up and coming team now for at least 3 years. They snafu'ed the Harden thing, and don't really have much to look forward to young talent wise or cap wise....please spare me the Lamb drivel and Jackson is just OK due to his friendly contract. They are just a very good, albeit mediocre playoff team at this point. Their record is fantastic, but IND MIA and SAS would throttle them, and HOU and LAC probably would win in 7 games. There is even POR as a wildcard.

 

The difference between OKC losing seasons and ours is that much of our talent came as second year players or later, theirs were rooks. If we don't see serious improvement next season from a team perspective then I believe its time to cut ties with some of the players. Nik is too valuable to pass up, as is Oladipo. No one else is playing well enough to be in the long term plans barring improvement IMO. I like O'quinn and Mo a lot as role players...but they aren't necessarily long term pieces either. I desperately want to include Harris in the former list, but will likely fall into the latter come next season for well documented reasons.

 

The Thunder organization lacks the scouting/development team that SA has. That is key to what I hope Rob and co. is trying to build. A little lotto luck with Wiggins/Embiid would be great but I would like to see more well-rounded organizational work than just plopping out a garbage team. Plenty have done that over the years, rarely if ever does that method work in of itself.

 

Yea the Thunder's scouting/development is so bad that they correctly picked and developed 3 high draft picks in a row into all star talents as well as drafting Serge Ibaka at #24 and Reggie Jackson also at #24.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

I for one believe that Thunder model isn't as great as it gets credit for. They were incredibly lucky with Durant, not only in ability but in loyalty; he has never said anything bad or ominous about the Thunder's future. But, how long have we been discussing the Thunder being poised to take over? They have been an up and coming team now for at least 3 years. They snafu'ed the Harden thing, and don't really have much to look forward to young talent wise or cap wise....please spare me the Lamb drivel and Jackson is just OK due to his friendly contract. They are just a very good, albeit mediocre playoff team at this point. Their record is fantastic, but IND MIA and SAS would throttle them, and HOU and LAC probably would win in 7 games. There is even POR as a wildcard.

 

The difference between OKC losing seasons and ours is that much of our talent came as second year players or later, theirs were rooks. If we don't see serious improvement next season from a team perspective then I believe its time to cut ties with some of the players. Nik is too valuable to pass up, as is Oladipo. No one else is playing well enough to be in the long term plans barring improvement IMO. I like O'quinn and Mo a lot as role players...but they aren't necessarily long term pieces either. I desperately want to include Harris in the former list, but will likely fall into the latter come next season for well documented reasons.

 

The Thunder organization lacks the scouting/development team that SA has. That is key to what I hope Rob and co. is trying to build. A little lotto luck with Wiggins/Embiid would be great but I would like to see more well-rounded organizational work than just plopping out a garbage team. Plenty have done that over the years, rarely if ever does that method work in of itself.

 

Well rounded as in signing players? I'm not sure what was out there that would have made sense for this team. I completely disagree with your assessment of OKC's scouting.

 

With the exception of the Harden move they have made good decisions. I would say that if they had not made that error then they would be the favorites to win the west. Unfortunately it looks like their ownership is not willing to spend, something we have not had a problem with. I would also say that being smart with your cap space works out much better than the alternative of throwing money at the problem and hoping for the best ala Knicks and Nets.

[Murphy13 185]

Well rounded as in signing players? I'm not sure what was out there that would have made sense for this team. I completely disagree with your assessment of OKC's scouting.

 

With the exception of the Harden move they have made good decisions. I would say that if they had not made that error then they would be the favorites to win the west. Unfortunately it looks like their ownership is not willing to spend, something we have not had a problem with. I would also say that being smart with your cap space works out much better than the alternative of throwing money at the problem and hoping for the best ala Knicks and Nets.

 

So they had a couple late first rounders pan out, including a high upside athletic center, now they have the scouting acumen to compare with SA...like I suggested? No. That was as much in response to the UK guy as you.

 

You touched on the exact reasons why they aren't what they are lauded to be...I don't understand the position of your argument. Furthermore I never mentioned signing specifically as a reason for being a 'more well rounded organization', although by nature of the game that is a part of it. I have been vocal enough over the years voicing my displeasure over most large FA signings for you to know where I stand on buying a team.

 

To me, OKC had a flurry of initially impressive moves that have not been continued. SA has a way of staggering talent, this is done through scouting that occurs outside of first round draft choices-whether it be trades, second rounders, international scouts, and yes FAs. They can certainly come in and restock the cupboard at any time, but today their trajectory does not look great...especially if you are hanging your hat on Ibaka and Jackson.

[Soul Bro 1,419]

Murphy, what gets me is your clear dislike of Harris. Flesh that out for us, as I see a guy with loads of talent, focus, upside and professionalism.

[~O~ 565]

I'm assuming under "normal" circumstances. I don't want to be in the playoffs with an under .500 record.

 

I agree.

[CTMagicUK 1,482]

So they had a couple late first rounders pan out, including a high upside athletic center, now they have the scouting acumen to compare with SA...like I suggested? No.

 

The Spurs have had 20 years of moves for you to judge and 20 years of building around talent like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. The Thunder have had 6 or 7 years (only 3 or 4 of which when they've been in contention) of building around Durant and they've already got a great "3rd banana" in Ibaka, a great guard in Russell Westbrook (who wasn't an obvious choice by any means at the time) and some good young players who could become great bench players in Jeremy Lamb, Steven Adams and Reggie Jackson who is a great backup point. They also drafted and developed an All Star SG. (I get that they made a mess of the Harden trade but if they hadn't had a cheap owner this might be a non issue plus it's not like the Spurs never did anything stupid- they traded the draft rights of Goran Dragic for Malik Hairston, ever hear of Malik Hairston? Exactly.)

 

Plus in your initial post you say that the Thunder got lucky with Durant as though the Spurs didn't have David Robinson AND Tim Duncan fall into their laps.

[Murphy13 185]

Murphy, what gets me is your clear dislike of Harris. Flesh that out for us, as I see a guy with loads of talent, focus, upside and professionalism.

 

I want the best for him, I just don't see the upside many of you all do. Im not alone...outside of Orlando that is. I just hope for more consistency. Offensively he can be a great cog, particularly if he is active on the boards...otherwise he is average to below average-particularly on defense which is at a minimum 50% of the time he is on the floor. As with every player on the Magic I hope the best from him and expect focus and professionalism.

 

He has shown some flashes of late offensively , I am encouraged, and have said as much following his good games. I am allowed to be skeptical, besides, I feel he plays a position that will likely be duplicated in the draft if we are in the 2-4 range, and whoever comes out will almost immediately be better than him thus he may not be long for the team. It's as much looking ahead as it is seeing what he is today. I think he has value as a piece in a greater deal and would rather see him packaged in a deal with DEN's pick to move up than Afflalo, for example.

[Murphy13 185]

The Spurs have had 20 years of moves for you to judge and 20 years of building around talent like David Robinson and Tim Duncan. The Thunder have had 6 or 7 years (only 3 or 4 of which when they've been in contention) of building around Durant and they've already got a great "3rd banana" in Ibaka, a great guard in Russell Westbrook (who wasn't an obvious choice by any means at the time) and some good young players who could become great bench players in Jeremy Lamb, Steven Adams and Reggie Jackson who is a great backup point. They also drafted and developed an All Star SG. (I get that they made a mess of the Harden trade but if they hadn't had a cheap owner this might be a non issue plus it's not like the Spurs never did anything stupid- they traded the draft rights of Goran Dragic for Malik Hairston, ever hear of Malik Hairston? Exactly.)

 

Plus in your initial post you say that the Thunder got lucky with Durant as though the Spurs didn't have David Robinson AND Tim Duncan fall into their laps.

 

All I said is they are not on the level of SA on an organizational level, and don't have as good a future stacked up. Both of those are true. Relax.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

All I said is they are not on the level of SA on an organizational level, and don't have as good a future stacked up. Both of those are true.

 

No, both of those are subjective opinions.