Lets Talk Iran

[~O~ 565]

quote:

Originally posted by Live or Die Magic:

Part of the problem is that our current administration has been using this map:

 

 

Thats a silly map although its true but I see a continent missing.

[Ned Ryerson 94]

Haha! That map is hilarious!

[fan for too long 16]

Wasn't Judith Miller working for the NY Times when she wrote of the absolute certainty of WMD's in Iraq pre war. This was of course a lie and was basically from Karl Rove's mouth to Miller's pen. She also with the help of Rove outed a CIA operative named Valerie Plame which is highly unethical.

 

They, meaning the Bush administration wanted her outed to cause harm to her husband Joseph Wilson who went to Africa and disproved the claim of Bush that they were providing those alluminum tubes for Saddam to help in his nuclear ambitions.

 

Osprey, you need to get your facts straight. Stop watching Fox News for your info. They have the most right wing crap on TV.

 

And I think that map is on Bush'a wall in the oval office. The continent that's missing is Africa which is perfect because Bush probably doesn't know where it is anyway.

[fan for too long 16]

I forgot to add that aren't we suppose to be fighting Al-qaeda. They are in Afghanistan and on the border of Pakistan, not Iran. Remember that Bin-Laden supposedly caused 9-11, he is our Number 1 enemy Right?? We still haven't found him and he is still putting out videos.

 

So we have started two wars and haven't won either. Do you think it is a good idea to start another with a country that is twice the size of Iraq, with a much stronger army? Don't you think our military is stretched thin enough or are you ready to start another draft? Is it really worth it to you?

[Osprey 199]

quote:

Originally posted by fan for too long:

Osprey, you need to get your facts straight. Stop watching Fox News for your info. They have the most right wing crap on TV.

 

Wow, an educated response from a conspiracy nut, thanks for categorizing my "opinions" as being no more than a mouthpiece for the vast right-wing conspiracy (AKA Fox News). You probably believe Farenheit 9-11 to be the gospel truth as well. And the Old York Times was also the newspaper that decided to leak our financial anti-terrorism tactics and alert our enemies to our strategy. To believe they do anything at the behest of the Bush Administration is pure imagination. They are the most ideologically driven paper in the nation and will stop at nothing to demean people they disagree with. It is well documented.

 

You act like the Bush Administration completely made up their intel out of the blue. Numerous different intellegence organizations (international as well I might add) believed Saddam was building a weapons program, the US didn't "pull a fast one" on the entire world community. Their intel was in sync with ours on many counts.

 

And besides, as long as we are throwing out theories, could it also be positive that Saddam moved his weapons before the US invasion? Do YOU know that he didn't? Do you know what happens in classified meetings between the President, the Joint Chiefs and his Security Council? Are you G-14 classified? Do you know Karl Rove's intentions? Were you in the room when Bush told him to leak the name to screw her husband? I doubt it.

 

Let me throw this FACT out there. Al-queda has not attacked us on our own soil since 9-11, and for that, I am grateful to the President, our law enforcement, our intellegence community and our boys in uniform. And if Iran is killing our soldiers in Iraq, then we **** well better retaliate, and I'll be there if my country needs me. And everyone said our military would be bogged down in Iraq. How long was it before we took Baghdad? Oh right, three weeks. If you feel like Iran will truly be a test of our military power than you are seriously misinformed about or defense capabilities.

 

For God's sake, I swear some people have such a high level of BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) that it is almost comical. You're so angry for some reason, you find any way possible to blame all the world's problems on Bush, or Republicans, or Conservatives, or big buisness, or capitalism or whatever else you feel like.

 

I don't agree with everything Bush does (probably agree with less than half), especially with spending, but I like a President who is strong on defense.

 

You can call me a Fox News worshipper or whatever other labels you throw on Conservatives.

 

Me. I'll go back to sleeping well at night knowing that even IF Bush is secretly sending us to war for his own pockets, he will be gone in a year and a half. Thats the beauty of our country. Where as in Iran, the Islamic Hitler can do whatever he pleases and his citizens be ****ed for as long as he holds power.

 

WPMagic and I disagree on numerous issues with our government, but we discuss them like adults and provide solutions. All you do is throw out theories and name call, and say people "believe that right-wing crap".

 

Whatever. This was probably a waste of time because there is no arguing with people like you. Go on believing your theories and believing our country has no moral standing.

[bhnole 153]

I was in the minority against invading Iraq BEFORE the war. Not because I though Saddam was a great guy or Bush was lying about WMD's.

 

The fact is that foreign occupation NEVER works when a good portion of the people don't want you there. Saddam was already isolated after the first gulf war, taking him out was too risky.

 

Oil is the only reason Iraq and Iran matter to anyone, instead of fighting them. We should spend the money finding an alternative energy source. Economic warfare is just as effective as the real thing (just ask the pre-cold war USSR). Cut off their oil money and their economies would collapse. Which would leave them pissed off but without the money or means to do anything about it.

 

Invading Iran would be ten times more bloody than Iraq. This is a country that had no problem using human waves during the Iraq-Iran war. You might find some pro-western people but there are enough anti-western ones that would willingly strap on a bomb and blow themselves up if they take our guys with them.

[Ned Ryerson 94]

quote:

They are the most ideologically driven paper in the nation and will stop at nothing to demean people they disagree with.

 

Washington Times.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by bhnole:

I was in the minority against invading Iraq BEFORE the war. Not because I though Saddam was a great guy or Bush was lying about WMD's.

 

The fact is that foreign occupation NEVER works when a good portion of the people don't want you there. Saddam was already isolated after the first gulf war, taking him out was too risky.

 

Oil is the only reason Iraq and Iran matter to anyone, instead of fighting them. We should spend the money finding an alternative energy source. Economic warfare is just as effective as the real thing (just ask the pre-cold war USSR). Cut off their oil money and their economies would collapse. Which would leave them pissed off but without the money or means to do anything about it.

 

Invading Iran would be ten times more bloody than Iraq. This is a country that had no problem using human waves during the Iraq-Iran war. You might find some pro-western people but there are enough anti-western ones that would willingly strap on a bomb and blow themselves up if they take our guys with them.

 

I totally agree with you. The reason we are having problems in Iraq is not because they are some sort of military juggernaught, it's because we aren't fighting Iraq the country. We are fighting thousands of little guys that pop out of every crevace and scatter like ****roaches when the lights are turned on. I may be wrong but I'm guessing we would run into the same thing in Iran if we were to attack them.

 

Does any middle eastern country export any products we need other than oil? I'm sick of these countries having us by the nads because we need to gas up millions of cars. We need to be putting a real effort into other fuel sources and I don't mean coming out with a few hybrids here and there.

[Ned Ryerson 94]

Alright... Here is what I think.

 

First off, I find it hilarious that everyone got all up in arms about the guy going to Columbia. What makes our nation so great is the freedom of discourse, the freedom of opinion, and the freedom of speech. Universities thrive on this 1st and most important right. Most who were in attendance said it was interesting, enlightening, and engaging. I understand what he has said about Israel, America, and Iran's role in Iraq, but that is beside the point. In fact, this was exactly what we should have done. This is us showing a oppressed nation that there is a forum for someone nearly all of us disagree with. This is what makes our country great. Those who fell we should take tax payer money away from a university for promoting discourse are in the same category as Ahmadinejad.

 

As for what to do with Iran... I'm not sure. What Osprey discussed about Iran's role in Iraq appears to be true, although I am very skeptical considering the whole WMD thing. If it is true, it is an offense justifiable of war, yet that is not an option. We can not fight Iran, in Iraq, and Afghanistan (Are we still looking for Osama... Really, are we?) at the same time. We do not have the capabilities. We need other nations to chip in and our international standing is so poor now we will not be able to muster up enough support.

 

Should they be allowed to have nuclear capabilities? If they were to use it for power, of course. If they wanted to use nuclear technology for defense... Can we tell them no? Israel has nuclear weapons. Why should they be allowed to but Iran is not? It's not like Israel is completely innocent here... They say a lot of crazy things too. We have nearly 10,000 of them... Why should we be able to have them but others cant? Obviously, the concern here is that we are worried that they will actually use them. Can we not go to the table with these guys and not discuss it? This is my main problem with the Bush administration when it comes to foreign relations. They are too hard headed. The US should be willing to go to Iran and sit down and talk about it, find out exactly what they want, and go from there. If we were to go to war with Iran, it would not solve our problem. It would only bread more terrorists like what has been the result of Iraq. We need to approach the Middle East in an entirely different way... That is by treating them with respect and as equals.

[fan for too long 16]

So I am the conspiracy nut job. Who is the one who believes every reason that Bush gave for going to war with Iraq. Do you have evidence that he was telling the truth. It is nearly impossible to prove a negative. So maybe Saddam sent his weapons to the moon or wherever can you prove he did or didn't, it is all moot.

 

Nearly 4000 young americans have died and tens of thousands have been seriously injured. Some reports have nearly one million Iraq people dead and over 3 million displaced from their homes. For what, so we could have a foothold in the middle east and control oil. Boy that was worth it.

 

I do not fear Iran's military. I was just stating a fact that Iran is twice as big as Iraq and there military is not going to roll over and die like Iraq's did. We have been in Iraq for nearly five years and have not secure any city there. How well do you think we would do in a country twice as big.

 

What if we found out that Saudi Arabia was sending people to Iraq to fight us, or Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, or Turkey. Should we go to war with them to?

 

When did the majority of people in this country become a bunch of "look at us the wrong way and we will kill your children" people. IMO 9-11 should have taught us to look at ourselves for what caused the tragedy and instead we looked at everyone else for responsibility. Our policies for the last 40 years in the middle east have come back to haunt us. But some people think that if we just kill everyone who is against us then the world will be safe. But people forget that when you kill these people, they have children, cousins, friends, etc. who will continue their fight with more emotion than ever. When does it end, how does it end, Are these warmongers just wanting armaggedon to happen? I don't know but their way is wrong and will only lead to a F***ed up world.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

This is why I hate talking politics.

[Osprey 199]

quote:

IMO 9-11 should have taught us to look at ourselves for what caused the tragedy and instead we looked at everyone else for responsibility. Our policies for the last 40 years in the middle east have come back to haunt us.

 

This is the problem right here. People who want to say it is OUR fault that 9-11 happened.

 

There has never been a more generous and philanthropic nation in the history of the world than the United States. I refuse to believe that we are at fault for 9-11.

 

The fact is, they hate us because we let women speak freely, we don't stone homosexuals to death, we support Israel, and we don't have Islam as our national religion/law. None of which should anyone in our country ever apologize for.

 

To hell with the idea that we brought about 9-11. I know our history isn't perfect, but we (the USA) have done more for developing and war-torn nations than any country/empire/nation in history.