The Official VC to Orlando thread. ~merged~

[chosen12 75]

quote:

Originally posted by ThefutureGM:

Originally posted by chosen12:

 

Keeping GHILL makes total sense. Getting rid of HEDO and others will free up cap room in the future and with GHILL still being the vetern on the team Carter would not need to be the leader. The Magic do want to win now and with GHILL and CARTER on the court that is a real good team

 

I should have been specific, my aplogizes FutureGM, what I should have said was it did not make cap sense, with a GHill and VC @ $16mil and $15mil respectivley! If we are going for the finals this year and have the green light to exceed the cap, Is he bringing Collins or Moore with him?? Answer this one when you can!!

[FeedDwight 0]

Update from MC...

 

Lying in the weeds, things are too quiet... that is in Vegas from Orlando...

 

Why are things so quiet out of Orlando. I confirmed with my long time friend who works with the Warriors, the Nets have had talks with the Magic (among other teams) about Vince. From the Wariors perspective, they would not touch Vince because they feel it would just become a bad rental of a player. Sure Vince has all world talents, but for a team to take a chance on Vince and not be able to resign him would destroy any chemistry on the team because all the players in the NBA already know what Vince wants to do. I was given a strong reason why almost all GM's, including Rod Thorn see the writing on the wall. There is not many players in the league that are as family oriented as Vince Carter. I was given the example of Carter going back to UNC for his graduation, despite the Raptors being on the verge of making it to the NBA finals. This is more of a window in to Vince Carter as a person rather than Vince Carter as a player. He puts his family priorities sometimes over that of his team or money. Right or wrong this is how Vince is made up as a person and you can not ask him to change. It is also what makes him great as a player because he plays on that raw emotion and can harness it to take over a game. Apparrently, the news the GM's were getting back from their own players is that Carter is completely focused on playing with Dwight Howard. They were seen countless times during the All-Star festivities together, and were described to me as both having "wide smiles and laughing at their own jokes like a newly wed couple." In otherwords, they stood out from the crown and people noticed. I have to put my own spin on this because as I watch the player introductions I saw some of this as well when Carter turned to Dwight as his name was announce giving him a big grin and then Carter himself started to do Dwight's snap dance to encourage some emotion from Dwight as well (could you see that on TV too?). The belief from the Warriors perspective is Rod Thorn should not have waited to make a trade this late. He should have attempted to trade Carter in the offseason when there was not this much attention to Carter and his desire to return to Florida. This is a misstake that may come back to haunt the Nets.

 

The Warriors were approached by the Nets to gauge interest in Kidd and also told Carter could be had cheaper. Without going in to my private discussions any further, I was told that there is not one team inthe league the Warriors feel will give up anything for Vince and that INCLUDES THE MAGIC. As the question was put to me, "Why should the Magic give anything up?" The only real reason to get Vince now versus the offseason is it clears up a lot of questions for the offseason and then the Magic can start to narrowly focus on what they want to accomplish in the offseason. You may think that the Magic want to aquire young talent if they can go ahead and pull off the Carter trade, but another league associate of mine's opinion was why would they want to add anymore young talent. In his opinion the Magic have more young talent than playing time will allow. I have to agree with him on this because if you bring in Carter, where will the minutes come from for Trevor and JJ. Assuming Grant Hill is resigned in the offseaon, Hedo would have to be traded or JJ & Trevor would be fighting over court time. Something Otis would dread because he feels those 2 players will greatly add dimensions to the Magic's game that few players around the league can. No need to restate the obvious, because we all know what these 2 players can do.

 

As I pined for more information out of my other league sources, I was finding the same resounding opinion out of them all. Also, one of them laughed at the news the Clippers were willing to part with Livingston in any trade for a player they would just be renting unless Marcus Williams was included in the deal as well. It came down to the same thing over and over again, Vince will not make a commitment to signing an extension or not opting out of his contract. There is just too much information out there in the press, from the players, from Vince and even from Rod Thorn's own quotes that Vince wants to be in Orlando. So much so that any GM willing to take Vince in a trade could be signing his own letter of resignation at the same time. It would be an act of professional suicide outside of winning it all this year. Now that the All-Star festivities are over, Thorn has to have come away from Vegas knowing he is in a position of dealing with one team, the Magic, and he will not get much either. It has to come down to Thorn's assessment of what he will risk by not trading Vince now.

 

By not trading Vince now, the Nets could make the playoffs as an 8th seed. Sound good? Not if you are going to rebuild. On the surface the decisions should be easy for the Nets. There 3rd and 4th best players are out and probably for the season in Jefferson and Nenad. They have a player they need to see what they have in Wright. This is the deepest draft for probably the last 10 years. They need to tank the rest of the year and lets Lawrence Frank develop the talent he has. Getting a pick outside the lotto could mean the difference in getting an impact player that you can use to intice Bosh, Wade or Bron in 3 years. Why then would Thorn wait to trade Vince or Kidd for that matter? Stubborness, fan backlash? Who knows other than Thorn. He is at the mercy of the GM's of the league because no team wants to make the Nets that healthy when they also see the writing on the wall that Lebron has a very good chance of signing with his FRIEND JAY-Z and the Brooklyn Nets in 3 years. The Brooklyn Nets will be the Sheik team of the league when they take over the New York Market. The league knows it and so do all the GM's. Don't think it was a coincedence that Bosh, Bron and Wade all signed the same deal last offseason. Jay-Z knows how to pick his friends and all the NBA players idolize Jay-Z and his arm candy Beyonce. Don't get fooled by anything else. Jay-z lives the life all of them want to be associated with.

 

Let's return to what I assume is going on amongst discussions with the Magic internally. I am sure there is the arguement between why make a trade now versus waiting to do it in the offseason. It is believed that Vince will sign a reasonable deal regardless if he is traded to the Magic or out right signs with them. It also must come down to what assets the Magic feel they can trade now and be comfortable with. No GM wants to make the other GM look bad because of repercussions in the future. All GM's barter hard and some do not play nice behind closed doors, but no GM wants to outright make a trade that makes another team looked completely fleeced. The problem is the Magic are not willing to part with any young players. I was told by other league sources the Nets got zero progress in with their desire to get the Magic to include any coveted young players. I would think it would be safe to assume those players would include Jameer, Trevor, Darko, Dwight (I know I did not really need to put his name down) & JJ. Also the Magic do not want Jason Collins either. He is not viewed as a big man that can help the Magic & is tremendously overpaid. Apparrently the Nets want Collins gone in a deal either with Kidd or Carter and that seems to be more of a sticking point than getng a team to include coveted young players.

 

What makes sense to me is the Nets take a package of players that would include Travis Diener and then ship Travis to the Suns for a 2007 draft pick and the Magic bite the bullet and take Collins. If I were the Nets I would do a deal if the Magic would take Collins and then give me a protected first orFran's rights along, Travis, Grant and Hedo. I have no sense or feel to what the Magic want to do other than hearing bits and pieces from my own sources around the league. But what I can do is give one piece of advice to Otis Smith that was said to me by a well respected scout who is also a friend of mine. I will try to paraphrase, "If the Magic want to develop Ariza in to that explosive go to guy that will take over a game, what better person to learn from than Vince Carter. Carter has never had a player around him since TMAC that has the untapped talent like Ariza. Young players need a Veteran they can relate to and share experiences with. Vince and Trevor would be a perfect match. Not many players can fly that high and experieces what those two can" After getting his opinion, I have to agree 100%. Never thought about that until I had that conversation. Just like we all see how Darko and Dwight will help each other grow. I can not imagine a better prototype of a veteran than Vince Carter to help Trevor grow. Because of Trevor's willingness to learn and be coached then add Grant Hill to this mix to tutor young Trevor and you could be looking at a player in Trevor that could eclipse both of their accomplishments in the league. For the sake of Trevor's future, I am hoping Otis finds a way to make a deal work now or in the offseason.

 

http://forums.delphiforums.com/MagicConfid/start

[Mr Charisma 0]

I like the idea of trading a group of players. It put's players back to their natural positions. Grant won't be playing 2 anymore. Bogans would be VC's backup.

 

Grant and Trevor share the 3 spot now. I would start Trevor and bring Grant off the bench because having Grant and VC on the floor at the same time would be pointless. And Jameer would simply be out of the picture.

 

While losing JJ might appear a little disappointing, it's not like B. Hill is going to play him that much when the team gets healthy again anyway. For his sake, he might as well move on.

 

Giving up a 1st rounder in 2009 sounds the worst, but if we could trade Travis to Phoenix for their 1st in 2009, that would offset it to some degree.

 

While I've never been a big VC guy, I think Dwight, Jameer and Trevor's youthful exuberance could energize him.

 

And, most importantly, Brian's hand would, for the most part, be forced on who to play. If you're the GM and your coach's rotations drive you crazy, you simply give him a set of personnel that basically makes the decision for him.

 

He starts Dwight and Darko, with Battie backing them up.

 

VC has Bogans to back him up

 

Jameer has Carlos to back him up.

 

Grant and Trevor share the 3, so that's the only decision the coach could mess up.

 

And I expect he would.

[FeedDwight 0]

quote:

y

Hedo

Well he doesnt know the deal. He just stated it would not include Darko, Hill, or Ariza. But one young player.

[FeedDwight 0]

I would take Vince Carter for Reddick, Turk, Dooling, Fran. I think its a fair trade for both teams. Thorn is a great GM with a history of solid moves for the Nets. Hes not going to just give Carter away.

 

We are building around Dwight Howard, Darko Milicic, Jameer Nelson, and Trevor Ariza. I dont mind losing Reddick considering we have a shot at taking the East this year, and the MLE to work with in the offseason to add a big man, or another wing player.

 

My only concern is we are losing a lot of 3pt shooting if we give up Turk and Reddick. Nelson, Carter, and Bogans would be are only 3pt threats.

 

The EAST is wide open...and with the way Darko and Dwight have been playing.. I would make this trade right now.

[ibonedteribell 0]

quote:

None of the above........

 

I would trade them Diener and have a pre-trade deal worked out with the Suns for one of their 1st rounders this year for Diener. This way the Nets get another 1st round pick this year, which would give them more flexability.

I think Diener has become a security back up in case Jameers injury becomes an issue.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

Chad Ford in his podcast says, he thinks Carter is out before trade deadline there are concerns that he may ask for too much and leave the Nets with nothing.

 

He goes on, Orlando is a good fit but, are nets willing to take back a combo of Grant and Darko? The Nets want to get rid of Collins, so they would try and include him in anything but they (the Nets) not big fans of Darko. Another team is the Clippers. They have a nice combo of expiring contracts and Shaun Livingston. Ford thinks the Nets need to blow everything up and get prospects.

 

Not really anything other than what we already heard, boring stuff.

[D-BoFats 5]

Yeah, but we'd also throw in the Rights to Fran Vasquez, so it would work.

[ThefutureGM 0]

quote:

Originally posted by chosen12:

quote:

Originally posted by mongoose:

Honestly. As much as I like GHill, I'd rather see him go than JJ. JJ has quite a future ahead of him.

 

Unless there is another trade, and FutureGM advised that there are many, not including GHill in this deal makes no sense, but I would still do it! By the way future GM....Who is your Girl?????

 

Keeping GHILL makes total sense. Getting rid of HEDO and others will free up cap room in the future and with GHILL still being the vetern on the team Carter would not need to be the leader. The Magic do want to win now and with GHILL and CARTER on the court that is a real good team

[ags_pr 0]

What about Hedo/Grant/Deiner for

VC and Miki Moore?

 

That way you not only get the superstar, but you also get a solid backup for Dwight.

 

And if you don't like Moore, then trade him for some other big.

[Diplo 12]

thorn says he would part with collins but i think his contract is a joke he isnt even that mucb better then auggie.

[bhnole 153]

Why do I keep hearing that Final Jeopardy music in my head, everytime I hear any quotes from Rod Thorn?

 

As MC said he should have blown this team up last summer when VC refused the extension. Now he has his back against the wall to get something now. Retaining Kidd and VC might get him barely into the playoffs for a likely first round exit and no ticket to play the Oden/Durant draft lottery.