The Official VC to Orlando thread. ~merged~

[~O~ 565]

Good job FENDI...............

[FENDI 4]

you guys can call me the janitor now.. :-) tried a new way to move merge the threads too :-)

[bhnole 153]

I am not sure if it has been posted in the giant merged thread but here is more from MC on the deal.

quote:

Who's got the leverage?

 

Before reading this, I want you to think back to the summer when TMAC and Grant Hill signed with Orlando. On draft night Orlando was able to trade Derek Strong, Corey Magette & the rights to Keyon Dooling for a future draft pick. That move allowed the Magic to free up enough cap space to have chased 3 free agents if they could have signed TMAC, Hill & Duncan. The premise of this trade was the basis of a conversation I had on my flight back to San Fran from Vegas. (By the way at the end of the story I have some small Magic trade news/rumor.)

 

On my flight back to San Fran I had the pleasure of sitting 2 rows from a local Oakland sports reporter. After I introduced myself, I changed seats and set next to him on the entire flight. We talked about a lot of different things, not just the NBA. Admist the conversation, I thought I would ask his opinion of any trade that would send Carter to the Magic. He was not entirely high on Carter being traded to any team. He said everything he was hearing is every GM walked away from talking with Rod Thorn as thinking he was delusional. Take for example what he said about the Lakers. Off the record he was told the Laker's felt they offered a very good package for Kidd, one in his opinion was a bit much for an aging PG on the backside of his career, but was countered by an offer which propbably killed the deal from ever happening. He said the logic Rod Thorn was using to make the Lakers sweeten the offer was "downright laughable." He said other jorunalist he spoke with got the feeling from the teams they were covering, that when it came to a trade, the only likely big one that could happen might be Memphis trading Gasol. There are some definite problems in Memphis with the fractured relationship Pau has with the Grizzlies.

 

Back to the Nets for a moment. The word he was getting is that the Magic were gauging interest from other teams about the value of their own players currently on their roster just as much as they were entertaining trade talks with the Nets. He pointed out that the Magic can and should sit and do nothing. There is so little risk for the Magic in doing nothing. Here is the example he used. Let's say for arguement sake that Rod Thorn does not want to make a deal right now and thinks his worse case scenario is Vince getting a S&T in the offseason to the team Vince wants to play for. Not so fast...From what he was hearing the Magic have plenty of opportunities to make trades to free up even more space to sign Vince outright and cut the Nets out of any possible compensation. (By the way he heard Utah was interested in Hedo if the Magic wanted to take back expiring contracts like Araujo, and I said yeah like that is going to happen.)

 

His thoughts about Vince and the Magic were this. He played devils advocate. He said assume Vince did get traded to the Magic and he ended up not liking his short time with the team and for some reason, any reason, he chose not to resign with them. OK I realized this would be a bit far fetched but it would be a possibility. Then if this happened whatever we gave up in a trade with Jersey was all for nothing and we are back in the same position we were in prior to the trade, but with less assets to work with. The best case scenario for the Magic he pointed out was probably way more likely than anything else. He felt that sitting tight would prove to be the best move and then decide what is the best player/fit for the team in the offseason. When it comes to cap room??? Not to worry, he felt that players on the current roster had trade value enough to allow the Magic to free up cap space. If it came down to it, a team like the Bobcats who are notoriously cheap, would probably do a trade for Hedo in excahnge for a future draft pick. Just that move by itself would free up enough space to sign any coveted player outright. So the worse case scenario for the Nets would be they get no compensation. The best case scenario for the Magic is they do not have to S&T Carter and give up assets. They would actually gain Carter and a future pick and lose only Hedo. Versus you make a trade now by agreeing to Jersey and you get a bloated contract in Collins, a potential free agent that could walk and a loss of assets. When he put it to me like that I can completely realize why I hear the Magic and other teams are playing hardball with the Nets. The Nets are in the unenviable position of having their hands tied because they waited this long to make decisions about their players.

 

The possibilities started to get me thinking. Remembering back to the time where we traded Derek Strong, Corey Magette & the rights to Keyon Dooling for a future first round pick. It made me realize that the posibilities are trully endless when it comes down to what the Magic can do this offseason if they wait. Sure it would be nice to have Carter right now, but at what price? You can easily sit and run numbers all you want. Make a list of the players that are off limits and their salaries or cap holds. If Dooling opts out that is fine too, but looking at the projected salaries on the books and what the Magic could shed open up a great deal of posibilities when it comes down to getting the right piece for this Magic team. As my new journalist friend pointed out, right now we have a player in Carter that wants to be in Orlando. Not getting traded won't change that but getting traded could change his thoughts about being on the Magic. Plus it ties the hands of the Magic incase other offers come up in the offseason that would have been a better fit for the team.

 

According to him, he is hearing the Magic are going to trade Travis Diener and Keyon Dooling. Just to let you know this is what I heard a week ago and am waiting to hear if the Magic finalize this small trade before the deadline. He said since both can play the PG position they have a lot of value based on their contract and/or potential. He said the Heat were really interested in Dooling, but he could not see the Magic helping out a conference rival. In my opinion trading Dooling to the Heat is not the worse thing that we could do since he will probably walk in the offseason and we get nothing in return. He would end up on the Heat in the end anyway. Kind of like the Carter situation, but on a much smaller scale. If we could get a future pick by either a protected first or second round pick I would be all for it. For what it is worth he said the Magic and Heat were talking about a trade that would send either Travis or Keyon to the Heat in exchange for Earl Barron or Wayne Simien. I think I would trade Keyon to the Heat for either player, though I personally would prefer Simien because he is locked in to a cheap contract and a better prospect long term than Barron. Travis on the other hand I would hold on to unless I were to get offered an unprotected future first round pick, where it is the Magic's option when to use the pick in a given window of time. This is not the trade I was hearing so prior to the All-star break so take it for what it is worth. If the Magic do not trade Keyon to the Heat, I expect they will go after Chucky Atkins as reported in todays papers.

 

That is about all I have. It is not really new news, but it is a different perspective to view things while we wait on the trade deadline to pass. It always takes 2 sides to make a trade happen and in this situation, the Nets by all acounts are the unreasonable party with all teams, not just the Magic. And Joel if you are reading this, it was nice to bump in to you in Vegas, incase you did not know it was me.

[Nyce_1 311]

^^^^^ ahhhh, you beat me by 10 minutes. lol

 

this is a VERY interesting "Devil's Advocate" perspective. It does make total sense. What if we do trade for Vince by the deadline and Jordan (his new statements makes this a strong possibility) throws "ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD" at a top-tier talent in Vince if he opts out of his schedule? Vince can verywell leave and we'll be stuck without our current assets. This should calm down everyone expectations; it has mine. I will hope for the best.

 

2 days and counting.....

[bhnole 153]

Looking very much like Thorn has his head in the clouds here. He also makes a very good point about VC possibly getting turned off in the short period before resigning.

 

The question is does Otis make a few deals now to clear more cap room or wait til the summer?

[MagicmaninMiami 0]

Pretty much mirrors what I've been saying all along. The Magic can sign both Darko and Vince in the offseason so all you are doing is trading for a free agent who already has committed to being here. Why give up any young player under contract next year?

 

 

Not doing anything at all also does something big in the PR and moral departmant as well- Grant Hill never gets traded and Orlando comes off as a classy organization that takes care of its franchise veterans.

[Nyce_1 311]

Quick questions....If we trade for Vince, can we give him an extension before the season is over or has that deadline passed already?

[K Dizzle 0]

From John Hollinger chat today:

Brandon ( Orlando ): There has been a lot of speculation the Vince Carter was on his way to Orlando, What do you think will end up happening with that whole situation? And do you think V.C. would be a good fit in Orlando

 

John Hollinger: (12:01 PM ET ) there's been speculation, yes, but I don't get the impression the Magic are making a real serious run at him. They'd basically have to trade Grant Hill to have a chance

[SmackDaddy 30]

Sounds like Magic Confidential was a little jet lagged when he wrote this.

 

First - I don't feel like quoting everything, so I will try to paraphrase. He says that the Magic should not trade away pieces right now to sign VC, but then says that the Magic will need to trade away pieces to free up cap space in the offseason to clear room to sign both Darko and Vince. What's the difference? Does he really think that other teams will be wiling to trade for Garrity or Bo or Battie to help us clear room to dominate the league? Any team that trades with us so that we can clear cap space will want Hedo, JJ, Bogans, etc. These are the same players we are discussing right now.

 

Second - If we don't make a trade we stand to lose our MLE. That is going to be huge for us to put that final piece (a backup big man?) on our roster this summer.

 

Third - MC mentions that we may in fact be one of the teams that stands to rent VC this season if he decides he doesn't like playing for the Magic. That would be impossible if we extended him before the trade. Not to mention, I fear we run an even greater risk of losing his interest if he isn't brought in this year. Right now we are one of the poorr playing teams in the league. If we don't mix things up and we do continue down the same path we will miss the playoffs. How attractive an option do we become to Vince if we are just as bad as the NJ team he has just left?

 

Let me restate...If we trade for him right now, we maintian the rights to our MLE. We sharpen up our rotation right now with fewer players demanding paying time. We make the playoffs and possibly further with Vince playing a vital role in this season's turn around. We make a statement this season in a very weak Eastern Conference rather than waiting for all the other teams to recalculate their plan and possibly strenghten substantially. Ultimately, we send a clear message to everybody else that we mean business NOW!

[fan for too long 16]

quote:

Grant Hill never gets traded and Orlando comes off as a classy organization that takes care of its franchise veterans.

quote:

 

Does this show class or just plain stupidity. We have watched Grant Hill struggle to reclaim his career over the past years only to injure some other part of his now frail body. You say we should do the classy thing by keeping Grant and his deteriating game. While he has made 90 million dollars of the Magic for less than 200 games. Have you seen or heard him once say that the Magic should cut their losses with him and trade him for a more effective player. No way, that would show real class.

 

If the Magic were to keep Grant till the end of the season and eat all his 90 million contract they would prove that they are the stupidest organization in all sports. Grant has never been more valuable than he is now. They need to trade him and his contract to finally get some value for this bloated deal.

[ibonedteribell 0]

quote:

If the Magic were to keep Grant till the end of the season and eat all his 90 million contract they would prove that they are the stupidest organization in all sports. Grant has never been more valuable than he is now. They need to trade him and his contract to finally get some value for this bloated deal.

Maybe with the money he has made off the Magic he can put a down payment to buy the team with Shaq!

[MagicmaninMiami 0]

Smackdaddy,

 

Your first point is entirely invalid. Should you trade FOR Vince you have to match contracts should you trade for cap space your only need to match the player you are looking to move. You do not have to give up multiple players. Its not the same at all. HUGE difference. Might even get back a pick.

 

Second please layout the salary you expect Darko and Vince to sign at in order to lose the MLE Even if so It still will lack umph as an argument. Give up a promising rookie for a backup center available in free agency? Who is this wonder piece that will be able to be signed for an MLE?

 

Third point? - kind of a fantasy objection. Theres nothing anywhere that says Vince wants to sign an extension and you aren't even going to be able to broach the subject until you've traded for him. If it were on the table now there would be a ton of offers for Carter around the league. Sure he wants to come to Orlando but he's also said he's never been a free agent and wants to be one. He's obviously hoping he gets as close to his market value as possible with Orlando but he's stated over and over again he's not ready to make a decision. Maybe he will sign an extension or maybe not - all conjecture.

 

The rest of the points I feel for but they really aren't any solid reasons to trade young players to "make a statement" or "send a message". The only message I want sent is the one Miami sent last year with a championship banner hanging in the rafters (hey when you live in Miami and get it from your heat fan friends its the only thing that will shut them up)and that aint happening with or without Vince this year. So Vince I hope to see you only in the offseason when we can have Vince, Darko, Trevor, Dwight and Jameer with the likes of Arroyo, JJ etc off the bench maybe even hitting the open three that ices the game five that sends us to the big dance.

 

Fellas - Its a game of matchups. Miami's weakness has always been perimeter defense not interior. Last year if Detroit or Jersey could hit those open outside shots Miami would have had no championship. to this day there are those who say Vince choked in that series even with the numbers he got. Got a shooter -better see if he pans out. In the East you NEED him.