2023-2024 General Game Thread

[Soul Bro 1,422]

3 hours ago, ball junkie said:

We did it with Indiana, and now we're doubling down on the ill-advised move of criticizing draft decisions that are only a few months old. What could go wrong?

The Orlando Magic were right to target guards and wings with their pair of 2023 lottery picks, but early returns suggest they went with the wrong ones. Anthony Black was their pick at No. 6, and he hasn't assuaged concerns about his jumper by attempting just 1.6 treys per game. Big guards are exciting in theory, but Black doesn't have the ability to break down his man in isolation, doesn't leap out on film athletically and generally feels more like a connector than a real difference-maker.

Bilal Coulibaly was sitting right there at No. 7, but Cason Wallace (No. 10), Keyonte George (No. 16) or Brandin Podziemski (No. 19) would also have provided more of what Orlando needs. Wallace, in particular, would have been a brilliant fit. He's hitting 43.9 percent of his threes and already projects as a dynamite defender.

Then there's Jett Howard at No. 11, an even bigger reach who has appeared in only nine games and is shooting 31.3 percent from the field. Billed as a movement shooter, Howard often looks overwhelmed athletically and clearly needs more G League seasoning.

Jordan Hawkins, George, Jaime Jaquez Jr. and Podziemski all came off the board after him, and each of them would have made more sense at No. 11.

—Hughes

1. And before anybody says Junkie is on his UK kick again this is from BR …not me 

I wanted Wallace. I'm not betting against Black, but Wallace fit our team (vs. our prototype) better. The Howard pick baffled most of us, but to be fair, he's received little burn. 

[orlandoholic 137]

1 hour ago, Soul Bro said:

I wanted Wallace. I'm not betting against Black, but Wallace fit our team (vs. our prototype) better. The Howard pick baffled most of us, but to be fair, he's received little burn. 

we should have drafted Lively to be honest. To this day i don’t understand. 

Mo Wagner isn’t a center. He’s a bruising PF that can’t play C on defense. He needs a great defender next to him. I’m still not a believer in Bitadze. At least not as our backup center off the bench. He’s a great third string center for our team. 
But he’d be extremely valuable for a team like the Warriors for example. He’d be a great starter for them, because he can just play to his strengths. Set screens for the shooters and playmakers, be a lob thread, clean up boards. 

But for us? Our team needs a team effort. We need everybody to produce and we cannot afford to have two players in the lineup who basically do nothing on offense.

Bottom line, we should go back to the WCJ and Wagner rotation and sell Bitadze high. I’d bet he’ll have a decent market out there. Maybe we can fleece Moody out of the Warriors?!

At the very least we should have fleeced the Mavs who was definitely going to draft Lively 
 

We just aren’t aggressive as a franchise. Only one time and that was a bit of a forced rebuild decision (because injuries put us in a tanking situation and the team around AG, Vooch and Fournier wasn’t going anywhere) 

This was also a late rebuilding decision. Could and should have sold high when we had maximum value. The Vooch trade turned out great and gives the fo a good grade. But we barely got anything for AG and got nothing for Fournier. We had no leverage at all. Just look at what OG got the Raptors on an expiring contract.

 

 

[Jay Magic 1,251]

People love to moan alot on here... 

Do u not realise we are 4th in the East and we have been decimated with injuries... Yes shooting etc etc etc..

We got so much time on our hands..

We need everyone back for the playoffs healthy and i guarantee you we will win at least 1 round.

In the summer everything is addressed fully and away we go... Real deal championship contenders for the next 5 years at least.

[MagicMan1979 108]

5 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

People love to moan alot on here... 

Do u not realise we are 4th in the East and we have been decimated with injuries... Yes shooting etc etc etc..

We got so much time on our hands..

We need everyone back for the playoffs healthy and i guarantee you we will win at least 1 round.

In the summer everything is addressed fully and away we go... Real deal championship contenders for the next 5 years at least.

If I could give you 100 up votes I would. We are ahead of schedule this year in my opinion. We aren’t winning a championship this year no matter what we do. But the future is so much brighter than it has been in a decade. 

[ball junkie 277]

Not to be a Debbie Downer …but it’s no secret we have a losing record against teams with winning records …we lose these next 3 West coast games …which could happen …we fall out of the top 8 in the East 

[Jay Magic 1,251]

4 minutes ago, ball junkie said:

Not to be a Debbie Downer …but it’s no secret we have a losing record against teams with winning records …we lose these next 3 West coast games …which could happen …we fall out of the top 8 in the East 

we have not been blown out apart from Nets.. if my memory serves me correctly..

Cavs too.. 

Apart from that we have been right there with every single team. If we had shot league average on 3s we would of won most of them too.. 

You put us healthy completely against ANY team in a 7 game series and we are gonna be a absolute problem ALREADY.

 

[OnlyFranz 293]

32 minutes ago, Jay Magic said:

we have not been blown out apart from Nets.. if my memory serves me correctly..

Cavs too.. 

Apart from that we have been right there with every single team. If we had shot league average on 3s we would of won most of them too.. 

You put us healthy completely against ANY team in a 7 game series and we are gonna be a absolute problem ALREADY.

 

That’s the problem we don’t shoot even close to league average which is why we can’t hang with the contending teams. Defense only wins you so many games but at the end of the day scoring points is what separates the pretenders from the contenders. Are we in a great position with Franz and Paolo sure but the blatant disregard to address our shooting concerns by this front office is baffling. 

[Jay Magic 1,251]

9 minutes ago, OnlyFranz said:

That’s the problem we don’t shoot even close to league average which is why we can’t hang with the contending teams. Defense only wins you so many games but at the end of the day scoring points is what separates the pretenders from the contenders. Are we in a great position with Franz and Paolo sure but the blatant disregard to address our shooting concerns by this front office is baffling. 

If you think about it.. we should have good shooters.. 

They just haven't shot well

But we have hung with the contenders..

Celtics in Boston no... 

Apart from that we have been right there always.. 

Shooting will be addressed 100% either between now and the deadline or in the summer... Weltman is curating this roster organically MOSTLY and its beautiful to see. 

We have 1 GENERATIONAL talent at least MAYBE 2..

We have 2 point forward 2 way monsters at 6 foot 10..11... 

Teams be happy for 1.

Patience needed

13 and 24 this time last season ruffly.

19 and 13 now..  we are fine

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

Revisiting the "we should have drafted X" discussion because we've lost some games this season makes no sense, these conversations are always had with the benefit of hindsight. And honestly you don't use draft picks for how they'll play in year 1 when you're a rebuilding team especially.

In 20/21 the all rookie teams included Saddiq Bey, Jasean Tate, Isaac Okoro, Isaiah Stewart and Patrick Williams. The All rookie teams did not include Tyrese Maxey, Jaden McDaniels and Devin Vassell. 

In 19/20 the all rookie teams included Kendrick Nunn, Eric Paschall, Terence Davis and Rui Hachimura. The All rookie teams did not include Darius Garland, RJ Barrett, Cameron Johnson, Grant Williams, Jordan Poole. 

In 18/19 the all rookie teams included Marvin Bagley, Landry Shamet, Kevin Huerter, Colin Sexton. The all rookie teams did not include Michael Porter Jr, Mikal Bridges, Anfernee Simons or Jalen Brunson. 

I could go on but I've hopefully made the point that the best rookies don't necessarily make the best players years later. 

And even if you don't agree with the above point, It's impossible to say that rookies playing well on other teams would have had the same impact here in different systems with different expectations, different coaching and possibly playing different roles. 

Jaimie Jacquez Jr is one in particular where everyone assumes he'd have been this good everywhere and not that it's a perfect fit between player and organization. 

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

12 hours ago, orlandoholic said:

we should have drafted Lively to be honest. To this day i don’t understand. 

 

12 hours ago, orlandoholic said:

I’m still not a believer in Bitadze. At least not as our backup center off the bench. He’s a great third string center for our team. 
But he’d be extremely valuable for a team like the Warriors for example. He’d be a great starter for them, because he can just play to his strengths. Set screens for the shooters and playmakers, be a lob thread, clean up boards. 

Goga Bitadze isn't a good C for us but would be a good C for the Warriors because he does exactly what Derek Lively , the C we apparently should have drafted, does for Dallas (bolded section).

I can't see how you can both want to get rid of Goga based on your own description of him and also think we should have drafted Derek Lively. The two opinions seem entirely at odds with each other. 

12 hours ago, orlandoholic said:

But we barely got anything for AG and got nothing for Fournier. We had no leverage at all. Just look at what OG got the Raptors on an expiring contract.

We got Gary Harris, a first round pick and RJ Hampton for AG. RJ Hampton at the time had roughly the value of a late first given the Nuggets had drafted him like 4 months prior. So we essentially got Gary Harris and 2 firsts. Gary Harris is not nothing considering he's played SG for us for the last 3 and a half seasons, whether or not he's important and with us beyond this year we really can't quantify what he's done as a veteran on a young team. Just because RJ Hampton didn't become anything doesn't mean he had no value at the time of the trade. Draft picks become nothing all the time. 

Evan Fournier brought back 2 second round picks and no long term salary. His value was never that high to begin with the trade was more about finishing the tear down in one night. The team who traded for him immediately lost him in free agency and since then he's been relegated to DNP-CDs on a playoff team. Plenty of decent players since have been traded for 2 2nds including off the top of my head Matisse Thybulle and Obi Toppin. 

OG Anunoby is a 26 year old All defense guy. He has considerably more value than either of AG or Fournier at the time they were traded by virtue of being better, and more accomplished, than both. 

[orlandoholic 137]

8 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

 

Goga Bitadze isn't a good C for us but would be a good C for the Warriors because he does exactly what Derek Lively , the C we apparently should have drafted, does for Dallas (bolded section).

I can't see how you can both want to get rid of Goga based on your own description of him and also think we should have drafted Derek Lively. The two opinions seem entirely at odds with each other. 

We got Gary Harris, a first round pick and RJ Hampton for AG. RJ Hampton at the time had roughly the value of a late first given the Nuggets had drafted him like 4 months prior. So we essentially got Gary Harris and 2 firsts. Gary Harris is not nothing considering he's played SG for us for the last 3 and a half seasons, whether or not he's important and with us beyond this year we really can't quantify what he's done as a veteran on a young team. Just because RJ Hampton didn't become anything doesn't mean he had no value at the time of the trade. Draft picks become nothing all the time. 

Evan Fournier brought back 2 second round picks and no long term salary. His value was never that high to begin with the trade was more about finishing the tear down in one night. The team who traded for him immediately lost him in free agency and since then he's been relegated to DNP-CDs on a playoff team. Plenty of decent players since have been traded for 2 2nds including off the top of my head Matisse Thybulle and Obi Toppin. 

OG Anunoby is a 26 year old All defense guy. He has considerably more value than either of AG or Fournier at the time they were traded by virtue of being better, and more accomplished, than both. 

Lively is very different from Bitadze.. Very different, although i know what you mean. Bitadze is more of a less athletic version of Mitchell Robinson. 

Lively is a great post defender. He can hold his own against about anybody. On offense he is not only a threat for putbacks. He is solid in the paint as well. He has some moves and shoots a nice hook, and has counter moves. 

Lively has underrated bball IQ. I saw it at Duke too. He doesn’t force shots and he’s a great team player. Bitadze is a great team player but is prone to bone headed decisions. 

And most importantly, you can play Lively next to M. Wagner as a defensive anker. But if we’d play Bitadze next to M. Wagner it would be a desaster on defense.. 

 

No knock on Bitadze. This is definitely not a hate post. I like Bitadze and always did. I wanted to pick him off the streets as well. Just like i was vocal about picking M. Wagner up. They are legit NBA players. But both have significant weaknesses, and in the last draft, we had the opportunity to get or premier backup center or at least fleece a team out of an asset. 

But we are never aggressive on draft day. Never! 

 

[Shine88 89]