2023 Off-Season Thread

[CTMagicUK 1,481]

I've flip flopped back to kind of hating the FVV idea. Inefficient, 6'0 guard about to be 30. Hardly screams "pay me 30 million a season". (He reportedly rejected a 28.5m a year extension from the raptors). 

Plus stuff I've read from Raptors fans suggests he kind of complains a lot, like this is an upvoted comment on the Raptors Reddit:

"It's a bad look for FVV to always use the media to further his agenda. Let's just stick with facts first: The "changed role" interview complaining about his usage, the contract **** in the middle of the season, the "top 50, but probably higher - I'm not selfish" clownshow interview. Now this. We know these interviews happened. They're not up to debate. All this **** jives with him signing with Klutch.

I suspect the media loves FVV because he's the one who gives them the most information on the team. Look, his selfish play style is apparent to a lot of people, so it's a waste of time to debate. If you think he's a primary PG who makes his teammates better, you're not going to change your mind. Ditto for the other side. To me, he was terrible this year. Basically, this season he had two really nice hot streaks, sandwiched between two giant **** buns. Pathetic FG%, and worse, can't even make 3s at a good % anymore. If he declines further, the reported 30 mil/season is going to be an albatross. And there are signs of decline on both ends of the floor.

However, I have a problem with more than just his play on the court. I have a real problem with someone, ostensibly the "leader", of the team, always yapping to the media. We literally just got eliminated, and he's already shifting blame onto the young players. I don't doubt they have maturing to do, but leaders should not use the media to mentor young players.

I want this guy gone. No, we don't have a G to replace him. Yes, we'll be worse next season. I don't care.

I wonder how much **** this guy was stirring up during the Kawhi year. My guess is a lot." 

--

For what it's worth there seems to be a debate among Raptors fans as to whether FVV is a good PG or a bad, selfish PG. And it's a relevant discussion because he seems to want to play PG.

 

While we're at it, I'm kind of souring on Gary Trent Jr. Based almost exclusively on the second paragraph of this article (also he hasn't really play very good D this season)  -

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-may-not-be-best-fit-for-gary-trent-jr-big-goals?utm_source=reddit.com 

“I want to be first-team defense, make a [All] Defensive team, win championships, win MVPs, win everything,” he said Thursday less than 24 hours after the Toronto Raptors bowed out of the play-in tournament. “I work hard every day to try to accomplish those things and try to put myself in a certain position to get those things.” 

I personally don't want Gary Trent, who just played 17 mins in an elimination game, showing up, thinking this is his chance to be an MVP candidate and taking a bunch of 15 foot step backs a game when the ball should be with Paolo/Franz/Fultz. 

 

[Luke_FfS 248]

20 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

Pretty sure we were 2nd in the league in games lost due to injury.  

Fultz was kept out a lot for reasons that only FO knows, Isaac is surely included in those kind of stats but we all know he wasn't going to play a lot of games. The key pair Paolo-Franz has been healthy more than average for sure. It's not like we missed top players (LBJ, Kahwi, George, AD, Durant, Towns and Beal comes to mind)

Even eliminating that 5-20 (and that's a HUGE variable), as you said we were 29-28, worth for 8th seed in the East, and only play-ins.

 

Also, big no at FVV, always liked him and his story of "coming from nothing", but I would only consider him if he was still around 25.

[MagicMan1979 104]

13 hours ago, Jay Magic said:

the more i think of it... that back court would be fantastic. fred is a absolute sniper. imagine him being off the ball more. depends what it cost. would have to be a sign n trade situation id imagine.

If only this were true. He shot horrible this season. I would stay far away from him and the contract he wants. 

[MagicMan1979 104]

5 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

I've flip flopped back to kind of hating the FVV idea. Inefficient, 6'0 guard about to be 30. Hardly screams "pay me 30 million a season". (He reportedly rejected a 28.5m a year extension from the raptors). 

Plus stuff I've read from Raptors fans suggests he kind of complains a lot, like this is an upvoted comment on the Raptors Reddit:

"It's a bad look for FVV to always use the media to further his agenda. Let's just stick with facts first: The "changed role" interview complaining about his usage, the contract **** in the middle of the season, the "top 50, but probably higher - I'm not selfish" clownshow interview. Now this. We know these interviews happened. They're not up to debate. All this **** jives with him signing with Klutch.

I suspect the media loves FVV because he's the one who gives them the most information on the team. Look, his selfish play style is apparent to a lot of people, so it's a waste of time to debate. If you think he's a primary PG who makes his teammates better, you're not going to change your mind. Ditto for the other side. To me, he was terrible this year. Basically, this season he had two really nice hot streaks, sandwiched between two giant **** buns. Pathetic FG%, and worse, can't even make 3s at a good % anymore. If he declines further, the reported 30 mil/season is going to be an albatross. And there are signs of decline on both ends of the floor.

However, I have a problem with more than just his play on the court. I have a real problem with someone, ostensibly the "leader", of the team, always yapping to the media. We literally just got eliminated, and he's already shifting blame onto the young players. I don't doubt they have maturing to do, but leaders should not use the media to mentor young players.

I want this guy gone. No, we don't have a G to replace him. Yes, we'll be worse next season. I don't care.

I wonder how much **** this guy was stirring up during the Kawhi year. My guess is a lot." 

--

For what it's worth there seems to be a debate among Raptors fans as to whether FVV is a good PG or a bad, selfish PG. And it's a relevant discussion because he seems to want to play PG.

 

While we're at it, I'm kind of souring on Gary Trent Jr. Based almost exclusively on the second paragraph of this article (also he hasn't really play very good D this season)  -

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-may-not-be-best-fit-for-gary-trent-jr-big-goals?utm_source=reddit.com 

“I want to be first-team defense, make a [All] Defensive team, win championships, win MVPs, win everything,” he said Thursday less than 24 hours after the Toronto Raptors bowed out of the play-in tournament. “I work hard every day to try to accomplish those things and try to put myself in a certain position to get those things.” 

I personally don't want Gary Trent, who just played 17 mins in an elimination game, showing up, thinking this is his chance to be an MVP candidate and taking a bunch of 15 foot step backs a game when the ball should be with Paolo/Franz/Fultz. 

 

Great post I agree with everything on FVV. Gary Trent was someone I was interested in but he has warts too. I think we might have to get our difference maker through a trade and not free agency.  

[All Eyes On Me 1,210]

I forgot Fred signed with Klutch. I don’t think we’ve ever had a Klutch athlete here, LeBron and his boys hate us.

[CTMagicUK 1,481]

1 hour ago, All Eyes On Me said:

I forgot Fred signed with Klutch. I don’t think we’ve ever had a Klutch athlete here, LeBron and his boys hate us.

T Ross was very briefly with Klutch (left his agent for Klutch but went back to his previous agent after less than a season I believe) but otherwise you're probably right. 

[Albert Lergier 99]

7 hours ago, CTMagicUK said:

I've flip flopped back to kind of hating the FVV idea. Inefficient, 6'0 guard about to be 30. Hardly screams "pay me 30 million a season". (He reportedly rejected a 28.5m a year extension from the raptors). 

Plus stuff I've read from Raptors fans suggests he kind of complains a lot, like this is an upvoted comment on the Raptors Reddit:

"It's a bad look for FVV to always use the media to further his agenda. Let's just stick with facts first: The "changed role" interview complaining about his usage, the contract **** in the middle of the season, the "top 50, but probably higher - I'm not selfish" clownshow interview. Now this. We know these interviews happened. They're not up to debate. All this **** jives with him signing with Klutch.

I suspect the media loves FVV because he's the one who gives them the most information on the team. Look, his selfish play style is apparent to a lot of people, so it's a waste of time to debate. If you think he's a primary PG who makes his teammates better, you're not going to change your mind. Ditto for the other side. To me, he was terrible this year. Basically, this season he had two really nice hot streaks, sandwiched between two giant **** buns. Pathetic FG%, and worse, can't even make 3s at a good % anymore. If he declines further, the reported 30 mil/season is going to be an albatross. And there are signs of decline on both ends of the floor.

However, I have a problem with more than just his play on the court. I have a real problem with someone, ostensibly the "leader", of the team, always yapping to the media. We literally just got eliminated, and he's already shifting blame onto the young players. I don't doubt they have maturing to do, but leaders should not use the media to mentor young players.

I want this guy gone. No, we don't have a G to replace him. Yes, we'll be worse next season. I don't care.

I wonder how much **** this guy was stirring up during the Kawhi year. My guess is a lot." 

--

For what it's worth there seems to be a debate among Raptors fans as to whether FVV is a good PG or a bad, selfish PG. And it's a relevant discussion because he seems to want to play PG.

 

While we're at it, I'm kind of souring on Gary Trent Jr. Based almost exclusively on the second paragraph of this article (also he hasn't really play very good D this season)  -

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-may-not-be-best-fit-for-gary-trent-jr-big-goals?utm_source=reddit.com 

“I want to be first-team defense, make a [All] Defensive team, win championships, win MVPs, win everything,” he said Thursday less than 24 hours after the Toronto Raptors bowed out of the play-in tournament. “I work hard every day to try to accomplish those things and try to put myself in a certain position to get those things.” 

I personally don't want Gary Trent, who just played 17 mins in an elimination game, showing up, thinking this is his chance to be an MVP candidate and taking a bunch of 15 foot step backs a game when the ball should be with Paolo/Franz/Fultz. 

 

I think FO target for a big fish has moved to after next season.....Jaylen Brown will be unrestricted and very expensive. He will be 28 at the start of 2024-25 season. Still in his prime.

However, allows the FO to evaluate next year the 2 guards positions to make the necessary salary cuts.....and bring Jaylen in with Franz, Paolo and Wendell. 

This is one of a few Maybe Scenarios to consider.

[Soul Bro 1,419]

“Banchero, Carter, Jalen Suggs and Franz Wagner are the only players on guaranteed contracts in 2024-25.”

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/36092132/offseason-guides-trades-free-agency-draft-every-eliminated-nba-team

This is quite newsy. Can’t wait to see what happens this summer and next.

[All Eyes On Me 1,210]

Been thinking about it, and I wouldn’t mind throwing a contract at Josh Hart this off-season. The dude just does all the good things to effect winning basketball games.

[CTMagicUK 1,481]

8 hours ago, All Eyes On Me said:

Been thinking about it, and I wouldn’t mind throwing a contract at Josh Hart this off-season. The dude just does all the good things to effect winning basketball games.

Think New York are going to PAY him. He turned their season around. 

[OnlyFranz 291]

I wouldn’t mind trading for or signing Malik Monk when he becomes an UFA in 2024. He’s young, a good 3 point shooter, and can attack the basket while drawing fouls. He was an absolute monster last night against the Warriors and tends to put up big numbers when given enough minutes. I’m just not sure how much of a liability he would be on the defensive end if any at all. 

[hootie249 293]

About Signing Fred. Vanvleet would be a good pickup at 18 million a year or less. Problem is the players have all the power and always seem to get more then we think. Of course he wants more then the almost 20 mil he is making.

I don't think the market will be there for him. No way his agent can ask for more then Brunson just got paid. Remember, unlike young guards like Poole and Simmons, Brunson was a true free agent and he just blew the doors off and he makes 25 million a year. Fred shot much better in the second half, close to his career average. Again for the non believers, Fred is the kind of veteran guy you want, he does play both sides of the floor. But he is not worth more then 20 million a season. If our gm's let the market run it's course and don't rush out to sign somebody i could see the two sides make a reasonable deal.

They could just sign him to a two year deal so it's up when we have to pay Franz and Banchero. This is the scenario i see if we are truly interested in Fred. 

 

Edit. The real problem is Cole just had a great second half. Another vet guard would put either his or Suggs future in jeopardy. They won't get enough shots.

If Fultz stays healthy there is no doubt he will be the guy we keep and both Cole and Fultz would have to be given contracts this coming year. It's hard to see room for everybody although obviously Harris would be the first to go.