2017 NBA Draft Thread

[Odin 137]

Im starting to think people don't understand what highest ceiling means.

 

Most ways to impact a game =/= highest ceiling. For instance, draymond green is an elite defensive player. He's a really good facilitator. He can shoot. He can defend multiple positions. Despite having more skills and physical tools than curry you wouldn't say he's got a higher ceiling.

 

I think of Green as the ultimate complimentary player. He can basically do a little bit of everything at a high enough level to fill in most of the gaps of an otherwise good team, and elevate that good team even higher. However, on a bad team, like the magic, he would be tasked with doing way too much- as the gaps are way too big and way too many to all be filled by one player- which would reduce his effectiveness.

 

The most important players are players like Curry, Lebron, or Durant, are so good that they can completely erase one or two gigantic holes, on their own transform a team.

 

I think Isaac seems to fit into the first category. You can lean on him for some production in multiple areas, but he won't likely completely transform any individual facet of the team.

[Mack1085 57]

He's absolutely a playoffs or bust pick. If you stuck him into an nba game tomorrow he'd be able to play defense and spot up. He's bigger tony Snell. That's what gets you onto a court early

 

Playoff or bust picks are picks that fill your most immediate glaring need and typically have less upside than picks that go later. That's not the case for Isaac and the Magic. Just because we didn't bring in 4 rookies and trade every vet it doesn't mean we are in playoffs or bust mode. Now if we go and trade AG for some middling veteran scorer, then we can have different conversation.

[jjgator 164]

You guys think the push to dump draft picks is because we're tanking??? That makes no sense. When you tank you're developing rookies. If we were tanking we'd dump the vets for more young players to take chances on.

 

We took a good defensive role player that can play now number one. We're not tanking. We're still playoffs or bust.

 

You know what playoff teams don't do? Build their offense around rookies.

 

I'm looking forward to see him locking opposing players down while we win 32 games next season.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

Playoff or bust picks are picks that fill your most immediate glaring need and typically have less upside than picks that go later. That's not the case for Isaac and the Magic. Just because we didn't bring in 4 rookies and trade every vet it doesn't mean we are in playoffs or bust mode. Now if we go and trade AG for some middling veteran scorer, then we can have different conversation.

 

Except it is the opinion of many here that he does have less upside than at least two guys who went later: Smith and Monk. And we don't have an immediate glaring need, because we have maybe one starter-quality player on the roster. Refusing to take in rookies, to the point of giving picks away, is a playoffs or bust move. There are two reasons you don't take on rookies: 1- you like your vets and don't want to develop younger guys; and 2- you think the available players are not worth even a rookie contract. Since basically everyone said this is a super deep draft, I have a hard time believing we thought 2. We traded picks for worse picks down the road. There is really no defending that.

[magicblue 315]

I think of Green as the ultimate complimentary player. He can basically do a little bit of everything at a high enough level to fill in most of the gaps of an otherwise good team, and elevate that good team even higher. However, on a bad team, like the magic, he would be tasked with doing way too much- as the gaps are way too big and way too many to all be filled by one player- which would reduce his effectiveness.

 

The most important players are players like Curry, Lebron, or Durant, are so good that they can completely erase one or two gigantic holes, on their own transform a team.

 

I think Isaac seems to fit into the first category. You can lean on him for some production in multiple areas, but he won't likely completely transform any individual facet of the team.

 

Depends on how good he ends up being defensively really and this plays to Vogel's strengths. I'm thinking we looked at the guy's attributes, frame, athletic ability, instincts, etc. and hope he can be a defensive game changer blocking shots and defending multiple positions. Sort of like what we hoped Serge would be but with actual effort and energy. We still need to move Vuc and try to beef up the PG position this off-season but I'm trying to warm up to Isaac because he's who we got.

[tkranole 19]

I get that you're excited we drafted a Seminole, but no. We did not just get the next Durant or Giannis. If we're really lucky, we got the next AK47. Stop the Durant and Giannis stuff now, though. That is crazier than the people suggesting Dipo was the next Wade.

 

And I think you're missing the entire point of all the "glass half empty feels." The PROBLEM is that this draft (getting two guys whose ceilings are still role players and basically giving away the other two picks) means Vogel and our FO may believe Elf is still the future at PG and like what Fournier does. The PROBLEM is that we refused to even try to have a great draft. We punted. We had a shot at possible game-changers, but drafted a safe role player. We had 3 more shots to take chances on guys, but instead refused to bring in multiple rookies because we don't want to develop players anymore. The FO seems to be living in a fantasy where we don't need to rebuild. We have no talent and no assets, and we just treated the draft like it doesn't matter. That's not "glass half empty," that's "holy ***** we're dying of thirst and the glass is shattered."

 

Couldn't care less that he is a Seminole. Even if he only gives us what AK47 did then we got a very good starter on a contender. But he is more athletic and has a lot higher upside than AK47 ever had. There are more than enough analyst who believe that Isaac may have one of if not the highest ceiling in the whole draft. Meanwhile Smith's comp is Eric Bledsoe and Monk's comp is Zah Lavine. So you're saying you'd much rather have Bledsoe or Lavine over AK47?

 

We have no clue what Vogel and the FO want to do with our current roster. All we know is they think Isaac will be a better pro than Smith and Monk. There is nothing wrong with only drafting two guys this year and getting some value later. I know the keyboard GMs think role players live in the 25 and later parts of the draft but we all know it's a crapshoot after 20. I was personally hoping for a couple draft and stash guys but we didn't just say screw it. We also have the regular offseason coming up to move some guys out. Insane that people are freaking out over picking up a fluid, athletic 6'11 guy who can create his own shot and guard at least 3-5 very well at #6. Step back off the ledge.

[Nyce_1 311]

Some high school video of Isaac. His offense looks a lot better here than what he showed at FSU; but, he played a different role on that team. I think he's still adjusting to his growth spurt (if that makes sense) and once he gets comfortable, sky is the limit for this guy.

 

[Magicman28 295]

Depends on how good he is defensively though. I'm thinking we looked at the guys attributes, frame, athletic ability, instincts, etc. and hope he can be a defensive game changer blocking shots and defending multiple decisions. Sort of like what we hoped Serge would be but with actual effort and energy. We still need to move Vuc and try to beef up the PG position this off-season

 

 

I don't think they drafted Isaac to be just a defender.

[jjgator 164]

This franchise continues to be in the toilet. Different leadership, same dumbass moves.

[Magicman28 295]

Some high school video of Isaac. His offense looks a lot better here than what he showed at FSU; but, he played a different role on that team. I think he's still adjusting to his growth spurt (if that makes sense) and once he gets comfortable, sky is the limit for this guy.

 

 

Watching these last night. He had some real nice crossovers and ball skills in the videos I saw.

[tkranole 19]

Some high school video of Isaac. His offense looks a lot better here than what he showed at FSU; but, he played a different role on that team. I think he's still adjusting to his growth spurt (if that makes sense) and once he gets comfortable, sky is the limit for this guy.

 

 

He grew 6-8 inches his senior year of high school. He is definitely still adjusting to the new frame but he can still handle the ball well. Vogel will do very well with him and he has crazy upside.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

When I think of highest ceiling, I think of a player's ability to have the most success in the league long term through wins and losses compared to other players. Yes, I think Isaac has that ceiling compared to Fultz, Ball, etc. Time will tell. In addition to what shared last night, here's a similar view:

 

"This was a home-run swing for the Magic. They were going for a star and looking to take a player with the most upside. That is certainly Isaac. There are players who could likely contribute more immediately. But Orlando is definitely looking to bring in a player who can grow and become a star."

 

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2017/06/22/orlando-magic-select-jonathan-isaac-nba-draft/

 

Do I think the pick is sexy? Absolutely not. But I like Isaac.

 

see but that's not what highest ceiling means. A player's ceiling is how talented they can be in the league compared to other players. Manu Ginobili had more success in the league long term compared to Tracy McGrady but it's crazy to say he had a higher ceiling.