If Lee plays the "2"...J.J. is 3rd string again

[Murphy13 185]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

I think the issue, or at least part of it, is recognizing what "he's improved his defense" actually means. He's still one of the weakest defenders on the team, and no one, at least no one with a rational head, is suggesting otherwise. It's a matter of relativity, but his defense his better when compared to it's relative level of previous years.

 

Or to put it in arbitrary numerical comparison, if I were to rate our SGs for defense on a scale of 1-10, I'd rate Pietrus between a 7.5-8, Lee as a 6, Bogans as a 5, and JJ as a 4.5. He's still the weakest defender of the bunch, but I'd have given him a 2 at most last year, so his improvement is very noticeable. But noticeable improvement doesn't automatically make you a good defender.

 

what are you basing this on? what lee did in college? or the two preseason games he has been in, the first of which he didnt play that well at all? suddenly he is a better defender than bogans? who has been playing D in the league for 5 years? on top of a solid college career against top notch schools-not DII schools?

 

secondly, who here said that jj is a good defender? all i have seen is people saying his D has improved, and he made good defensive plays over the course of the past two games.

 

your train of thought is clearly twisted back to your distaste for the person, not the player. redick has proven that he has improved. what happens in real games will dictate how much he has really improved. lee has proven nothing, except that he looks good against scrubs that wont even make the bobcats team. nothing against lee, but he hasnt proven anything. pietrus is the best defender, bogans is the second best. but we have only one real good defender at this point, and thats pietrus. but, it only takes one to guard the other teams best player.

 

edit: i guess i agree with the theme of your post, but the method at which you reached your point is convoluted.

[davcivic 11]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

As far as his D, I was there and you know darn well that I am very objective when it comes to the players on this team. When JJ first came in he got beat a couple of times, after he settled down he did a fine job on D. He shadowed Carroll the rest of the time and was boxing out Seam May who I would imagine he gives up 50lbs to. Before the end of the half he cut off Carroll and forced a turnover then got to the other end of the court and drained a jumper, thats solid.

 

JJ = 190lbs

May = 266lbs

 

So that's only 76lbs and 5 inches in height...

[lavell12 0]

Then why is JJ coming off the bench early in these games and Lee is getting scrub minutes?

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by lavell12:

Then why is JJ coming off the bench early in these games and Lee is getting scrub minutes?

 

Preseason might have something to do with it.

[Murphy13 185]

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

quote:

Originally posted by lavell12:

Then why is JJ coming off the bench early in these games and Lee is getting scrub minutes?

 

Preseason might have something to do with it.

 

it tends to happen when you are a rookie. it especially happens when you are a rookie playing for a coach that notoriously opts for vets over rookies unless your name is wade.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

what are you basing this on? what lee did in college? or the two preseason games he has been in, the first of which he didnt play that well at all? suddenly he is a better defender than bogans? who has been playing D in the league for 5 years? on top of a solid college career against top notch schools-not DII schools?

 

secondly, who here said that jj is a good defender? all i have seen is people saying his D has improved, and he made good defensive plays over the course of the past two games.

 

your train of thought is clearly twisted back to your distaste for the person, not the player. redick has proven that he has improved. what happens in real games will dictate how much he has really improved. lee has proven nothing, except that he looks good against scrubs that wont even make the bobcats team. nothing against lee, but he hasnt proven anything. pietrus is the best defender, bogans is the second best. but we have only one real good defender at this point, and thats pietrus. but, it only takes one to guard the other teams best player.

 

To your first paragraph, the answer is my own observations of the players, which for Lee includes college, summer league, and the 2 preseason games. If you want me to explain what I was basing those numbers off of in terms of actual, specific observations, I can write that out for you, but it'd be time consuming, and I don't think you were actually requesting it. But I will concede that basic rookie mistakes could be argued to give Lee a lower score than the Bogans certainly, but I was ignoring those simply because rookie mistakes are never a good reason to not give minutes to a rookie, and I think he, Lee, will be able to work through those fairly quickly because he has great instincts on defense and he rotates well.

 

To your second paragraph, I was responding to Junkie's apparent logic that "JJ is better at defending than before" = "JJ is a good defender" which is logic that ISN'T being presented. I was merely pointing that out in a different way.

 

Distaste for whom? I openly said Redick had improved noticeably, and commended him for it.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by lavell12:

Then why is JJ coming off the bench early in these games and Lee is getting scrub minutes?

 

JJ has a full year in the offense, Lee does not, JJ has multiple years in the league Lee does not, it's entirely possible that JJ is being showcased for a trade, Lee is not. There are probably a ton of reasons for it.

 

Lee has the lateral quickness to get into his man's personal space and disrupt them, JJ does not. JJ is playing good D but I don't think he will ever be lock down, Lee seems to have the capability of being a pestering defender in the Keyon and Pietrus mold. That isn't overrating the guy that is based on watching him against what I know is a quick player. Not every player is going to have that capability so that is no knock on JJ, he will just play D in a different way from how a quicker guy will play.

 

Defense is will and quickness with strength. JJ has improved strength and will and quickness to an extent but you can only improve what you are born with in quickness so much.

[I love my PTSD. 92]

One thing I noticed while at the game last night.

 

JJ played almost 6 of his minutes in the first quarter, when he scored 10 points. By the way, the Bobcats scored a total of 9 points in the quarter, and only 2 points while JJ was in the game.

 

Just how bad can JJ's defense be?

[ball junkie 277]

quote:

Originally posted by lavell12:

Then why is JJ coming off the bench early in these games and Lee is getting scrub minutes?

 

It's called pre-season and being as how J.J. has hardly played in two years and the Magic might possibly trade him they have to give him minutes to establisg his value because at this point he has NONE...pre season won't hurt us to experiment because losing is not as important.

 

And Yeah, Marc Acres I did use Bianchi to back up my point because for once I agree with him...time will tell and I personally can't wait for the real games to begin and J.J. gets right back to the bench...possibly spot minutes here and there but I can gaurantee one thing(Thank God) that Stan will play the guys that he can get a "w' with.

 

Lee will be the man before it's all said and done...just give him some time to get acclimated to all this transition he is doing.

 

I am honestly surprised that so many of you think he will beat Cortney out...I mean the guy is obviously a vastly superior athlete to J.J. which at the shooting guard position is a premium. Honestly, I'd like to see a shooting competiotion between the two players because I think Lee could more than hold his own.

 

Keep defending him Marc, I wish you luck in the future.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

Keep defending him Marc, I wish you luck in the future.

 

You have gone off the deep end.

[ball junkie 277]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

Keep defending him Marc, I wish you luck in the future.

 

You have gone off the deep end.

 

All in the spirit of conversation my friend. I hope you didn't take it personally...

[andie 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

Before I start rambling, some perspective please...this was just game 2 of the pre-season. Yet, we are still allowed to make observations based on the teams play so far. Since I get DirecTV I got to see last night's game with my own eyes.

 

Shooting gaurd thread...

 

Mickael Pietrus was impressive! Dude can shoot the three ball and his post-up game was quite impressive. Not only did he have moves on the block but he was shooting fadeaways that were falling. The most impressive thing was the way he kept Jason Richardson at bay. Even when J. Rich tried to take him off the dribble he recovered and forced him into either a bad shot or pass. I did not see him try to take people off the dribble last night...something that is supposedly his weakness.

 

Lee is gonna be a BALLER!!!

 

I saw him in the 4th quarter last night take the ball to the hole in transition and finish with bodies and contact all around him...you can see his explosiveness and athleticism, something J.J. Redick will never, ever be able to do. As soon as they start showing the games on TV you guys are gonna see exactly what I'm talking about for yourselves. They need to quit jerking that boy around with the point guard stuff...and last night they put him at the "2" where he should be. There is no way they can keep that boy on the bench...when Lee had the ball on the wing isolated with a defender I found myself saying...take the ball to the hole Man...you can beat thay guy off the dribble easily. Something that as we all know J.J. is not very adept at. Lastly, they didn't experiment with Lee at the point even after Jameer hurt his ankle.

 

I'll give J.J. credit, at least he is knocking down shots right now. He still can't play defense. You talk about a BLOWBY!!! When J.J. checked into the game his 1st assignment was gaurding J. Rich, enough said. Larry Brown then inserted Matt Carroll into the game, the one white guy in the league that is slower than Redick. Didn't matter, the first time Matt had J.J. isolated on the wing he got around J.J. to the basket. Thankfully, Dwight was there to clean up the mess. And yes, Redick did shoot the ball well but he had frikin Matt Carroll on him.

 

Okay...Keith Bogans looks to be the odd man out. Alright, GIVE UP THE 1ST ROUNDER OTIS AND TRADE THIS GUY FOR SOMETHING!! Preferably another point guard.

 

Jameer started crying about his ankle last night in the 3rd quarter and didn't return. Thank God for Anthony Johnson! Dude knows what he is doing...when Jameer gets hurt(notice I didn't say if) I am seriously worried about the point. Looks like we might be keeping Mike Wilks afterall.

 

Here are some quotes on Jammer and Turk from everyone's favorite coach, Stan Van Gundy:

 

quote:

Van Gundy reacted to that performance(against the Hawks on Monday) by putting the Magic through a marathon film session on Tuesday followed by a practice loaded with defensive drills. In particular, Van Gundy called out point guard Jameer Nelson and forward Hedo Turkoglu for their poor effort.

 

``We watched every defensive possession of the second half,