Trade discussion thread between Magic/Memphis Forum members

[PNuT1423 0]

i think ivro's latest post puts some insight into why we'd be interested in critt. and it's likeness to dooling, we're not looking for that guy to run up the court, and pass it, make great decisions, run the offense,for 40 mins a game etc. we're just looking for someone to defend two positions and knows how to dribble up the court and hand it off to turk when they're on the court together.

 

as much as i think nelson is undersized at pg, he's the number one for the position with a guy like hedo in the starting five. then we have a. johnson, he's a vet, but if nelson goes down (knock on wood) a. johnson would be starting this season. and when nelson is healthy, a. johnson is the first guy off the bench, when we play a team that's beating down on our guards, in steps critt, and a player like lee, and we use peitrus in his full form at the sg spot to combat other team's high scoring 1 and 2 guards. i'd wouldn't bet money on critt or a rook running the offense for van gundy, but i'd put money on them brining the ball up the court, and handing it to hedo, as long as he can do that, hit an open shot, defend the 1 and sometimes the 2, and slice to the basket once every 30 plays, then we have the poor man's dooling, i'd personaly take that over reddick or bogans, although bogans is worth more to us because he is heavy and hard nosed enough to be the makeshift s/f when we go ultra small ball. and i wouldn't send cook anywhere, he has the expiring cap space that we'll need to resign hedo, if hedo is going to play like he did last season. i'd give up draft picks, it's not like we can sign them under the cap if we're going to be keeping hedo.

[SladeRider 0]

This maybe a long post so I apologise before hand.

 

Looking at both teams and what both teams are looking for. There are numberous trade proposals that can be offered that would interest Memphis.

 

The first thing that would need to be cleared up is what is Memphis looking for? Are they looking for cap relief? Do they want first round picks? What about a backup player? If it is clear what Memphis want, then it is easier to know what can be expected in terms of a trade between the two teams.

 

It would be easy if Memphis just wants to get rid of the Critteton's salary, then all it should take would be the trade exception that Orlando recieved from New Jersey. If this is the case, it shouldn't take long for a trade to happen.

 

But I think Memphis are looking for a draft pick, which has brought up the idea of JJ and a 1st round pick for Critt. I've seen some people think this is a good trade, some think it isn't. The bottom line, JJ doesn't have much trade value, if any at all. I would do this trade from Orlando's prospective with trade looking something like this.

 

JJ & 1st round pick (top 25 protected in 2009, top 22 protected in 2010, top 20 protected in 2011, top 17 protected in 2012, if not recieved by 2012, 2nd round pick in 2013 and 2014).

 

That seems to be the thing Orlando is worried about, they've mentioned they want to build through the draft, hence, not giving up a draft pick. So I would guess if a draft pick is involved in the deal, it will be heavly protected like I mentioned. Might not be the same but along those lines.

 

To be honest though, that might be what is putting Memphis off. They would be interested in a first round pick but I doubt they would be interested in something that is heavly protected and when Orlando and Memphis talked and if it was mentioned, this might be a stumbling block for both teams.

 

Now, if Memphis is looking for a sold backup to play behind Mayo, then Bogans would be a better fit then JJ. Because if it doesn't work out, Bogans can just expire and Memphis don't have to worry about him.

 

But I think Memphis would probably have alot more interest in JJ, because I think after next season, the following season is a team option which Memphis wouldn't have to pick up and would mean JJ is an expiring just like Bogans is.

 

I did read on here that Memphis would like JJ and a first round pick because they get two prospects which they wouldn't get with Bogans and a first round pick.

 

The ideal trade from Orlando's point of view is Bogans plus a 2nd round pick for Critteton. From Memphis, I think they would want JJ and a 1st round pick with limited protection.

 

I think both teams are at a stalement at the moment but there are just a few things to iron out but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the protection of the first round pick came up considering Orlando want to build through the draft the next few years.

 

But I'm just speculating and both teams could agree a trade just like that. With Memphis, who knows what they will accept after the Pau trade. I wouldn't be surprised if Orlando came out of the trade alot better then Memphis and it only took Bogans and a 2nd round pick to get Critteton.

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by bgassassin:

*peeks in*

 

Hi guys!!!

 

This is an interesting idea. I will say that you will get multiple views from us if others come over. I was the first to bring up getting JJ Redick even before the trade rumors and met less than stellar response from those who did respond.

 

I personally am on the Crit for Redick and a first bandwagon. Mayo and Gay will be our most consistent shooters going into the season and I think Redick would help us in that area. Any other questions and I'll do my part in answering them to the best of my abilities.

 

Welcome to all the Grizzlies fans!

 

If I was Otis Smith I would pull the trigger on this deal immediately. Make the pick lottery protected and you've got a deal. I still believe that JJ could be a valuable asset in the right system. JJ's biggest weaknesses are that he needs other to create shots for him and he needs alot of help on the defensive end. From looking at your roster, I would say that the Grizzlies have both of those ingredients. Your team is chock full of guys that can break down his defender individually ie Gay, Conley, and now Mayo (actually you guys would be really scary with a good front court player....sorry, I'm sure that's a sore subject). JJ would keep the defense honest and give your guys plenty of space to operate. You also have the long athletic perimeter defenders, primarily Mayo, that can makeup for JJ's shortcomings on the defensive end. Particularly, if Mayo is playing the point.

 

The trade would be a win for us as well. We know that Critt is a project that is a ways from being a legit point guard in this league. That's the main reason that we signed Johnson. Still, its a fairly good gamble for us. We aren't going to find a big point guard in the draft where we will be selecting so it makes sense. If he doesn't work out we essence lost a late first round pick. I can live with that risk/reward.

 

Both JJ and Bogans are expiring contracts so that is a wash. However, if you want a guy that will definitely come in and contribute then Bogans may be a better option. He's also a very good 3pt shooter (although not in the same category as JJ) and he is a very solid defender. He can also play the 2 and the 3 positions so acquiring him would give Ivaroni added roster flexibility. Just a thought...I'm sure you guys haven't been following Bogans game that closely. lol

 

This is a good thread Junkie.

[bgassassin 0]

I understand and am with you Jack. I want the same from Wallace. People questioned him for the Pau move, but if it weren't for the owner Jerry West would have traded Pau after we were swept by Dallas. Then we do trade him and Wallace goes after what Heisley said to. So Wallace got a bad rap but I think it's beginning to work out.

 

Well curly, it's going to be tough for anyone to know much about Crit considering he was just a rookie. On top of that, a rookie on first a playoff contender and then a team that already had a PG battle going on.

 

When it came to college, as far as we know he may have been playing to make himself look good at the expense of others. Yet when looking back at his numbers in college, he was 17th in assists and would have been (for some reason he doesn't show up here) in the top 30 in apg. Looks like he just needs a true chance to get PT at PG.

 

As for comparisons to Dooling, he does have the advantage of being 3 1/2 years younger so he could be a "rich man's" Dooling with PT.

 

That may be a long post Slade, but at least you made it readable.

 

I think this is a good time to clear up a misconception that I have seen from some Magic fans on another board. We don't have to, or need to for that matter, trade for cap space. The Grizzlies are on track to have well over $20M in cap space after the 08-09. Wallace and Heisley have already talked about a three-year plan (a running joke on our board) where we build primarily through the draft. So more than likely we would pursue a first rounder in a Crit trade and limited protection would be what we are after. I would expect JJ over Bogans because we would be looking for players for us to keep that might be used. Walker will be treated as an expiring and Buckner's contract is only guaranteed for $1M after the upcoming season so expect him to be waived. That leaves only Jaric and Mayo remaining with us from the trade.

 

Going back to the Pau trade, I and some other didn't expect to get much after waiting to long to trade Pau. Even still we have a trade the has turned into Pau and a future second for Javaris Crittenton (which may become another player and a first), Marc Gasol who was the MVP of the ACB and who broke Arvydas Sabonis' record for most Player of the Week awards, Darrell Arthur and indirectly OJ Mayo since if we had Pau we would not have selected Kevin Love. So it has since turned out pretty well. This last part gives me a thread idea for the Griz board.

 

EDIT: Thanks for the welcome emory. You made your post as I was typing mine. I'm watching TV as I type, hehe.

 

Another poster had suggested Bogans in my thread first suggesting we try to get Redick. I can see that move being made, but I have a feeling the youth movement we are on says Redick gets pursued before Bogans.

 

For a good laugh, here is that Redick thread I created.

 

http://grizzlies.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/88060817...231064852#9231064852

[God hates Magic fans 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Natmayo:

quote:

Originally posted by God hates Magic fans:

We are not trading Lee. The fact is Crittenton hasn't established any value yet.

 

Well to be fair, neither has Courtney Lee. He had what I would say is a good summer camp, but we all know that summer camp is a way different animal than regular training camp and playing organized games.

 

I dont see us even entertaining a trade with Lee involved but both players are basically potential right now

The difference is, Lee hasn't had a shot, Critt has so to speak. There is no way we trade Lee for him especially after the summer league Lee had.

[JonBoy418 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SladeRider:

This maybe a long post so I apologise before hand.

 

Looking at both teams and what both teams are looking for. There are numberous trade proposals that can be offered that would interest Memphis.

 

The first thing that would need to be cleared up is what is Memphis looking for? Are they looking for cap relief? Do they want first round picks? What about a backup player? If it is clear what Memphis want, then it is easier to know what can be expected in terms of a trade between the two teams.

 

It would be easy if Memphis just wants to get rid of the Critteton's salary, then all it should take would be the trade exception that Orlando recieved from New Jersey. If this is the case, it shouldn't take long for a trade to happen.

 

But I think Memphis are looking for a draft pick, which has brought up the idea of JJ and a 1st round pick for Critt. I've seen some people think this is a good trade, some think it isn't. The bottom line, JJ doesn't have much trade value, if any at all. I would do this trade from Orlando's prospective with trade looking something like this.

 

JJ & 1st round pick (top 25 protected in 2009, top 22 protected in 2010, top 20 protected in 2011, top 17 protected in 2012, if not recieved by 2012, 2nd round pick in 2013 and 2014).

 

That seems to be the thing Orlando is worried about, they've mentioned they want to build through the draft, hence, not giving up a draft pick. So I would guess if a draft pick is involved in the deal, it will be heavly protected like I mentioned. Might not be the same but along those lines.

 

To be honest though, that might be what is putting Memphis off. They would be interested in a first round pick but I doubt they would be interested in something that is heavly protected and when Orlando and Memphis talked and if it was mentioned, this might be a stumbling block for both teams.

 

Now, if Memphis is looking for a sold backup to play behind Mayo, then Bogans would be a better fit then JJ. Because if it doesn't work out, Bogans can just expire and Memphis don't have to worry about him.

 

But I think Memphis would probably have alot more interest in JJ, because I think after next season, the following season is a team option which Memphis wouldn't have to pick up and would mean JJ is an expiring just like Bogans is.

 

I did read on here that Memphis would like JJ and a first round pick because they get two prospects which they wouldn't get with Bogans and a first round pick.

 

The ideal trade from Orlando's point of view is Bogans plus a 2nd round pick for Critteton. From Memphis, I think they would want JJ and a 1st round pick with limited protection.

 

I think both teams are at a stalement at the moment but there are just a few things to iron out but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the protection of the first round pick came up considering Orlando want to build through the draft the next few years.

 

But I'm just speculating and both teams could agree a trade just like that. With Memphis, who knows what they will accept after the Pau trade. I wouldn't be surprised if Orlando came out of the trade alot better then Memphis and it only took Bogans and a 2nd round pick to get Critteton.

 

I just looked at the cap situation for the Grizzlies (and maybe the Griz fans here can help out). It seems that why would want salary dump and draft picks don't make much sense. Next summer, the Griz will have about $20 million in cap sapce to hit free agency hard. They already have Rudy Gay, OJ Mayo and the Lowry / Conley tandem as a significant foundation to which ever superstar decides to join. None of those players mentioned are older than 22, so why go even younger through the draft. Don't forget that they still have LA's first rounder in 2010 for the Gasol trade as well. Salary dump seems to be the most reasonable given the names and conditions released to the media.

 

As for the Magic, I am very much against giving up a draft pick, first or second... doesn't matter. The Magic are going to be locked into salary cap hell for the next five years. The draft is the only way to add pieces to the puzzle. If they start giving out draft pieces when it's not nessacary, then they'll be screwed for the next several years.

 

The Magic have no real immediate need to make this deal. They just signed a nice veteran PG to take some pressure off this deal. I think Otis' mindframe is: why trade Crit for Bogans and a 1st rounder, when in 5 weeks, Memphis might be more open to just a Bogans - Crit swap? Just wait - nothing needs to be done immediately. If Memphis sticks to their guns and demands a draft pick - walk away and look to sign another PG to the vet minimmum as a third stringer.

 

Jason Williams is still out there, Sam Cassell, Darrell Armstrong, Damon Stoudemire, other big name PGs that may be released altogether. ***Just so everyone is aware - I am not suggesting that Otis should persue any of these players - just merely showing that there are other options out there other than giving up draft picks***

[SmackDaddy 30]

I still contend that a 1.5mil trade exception and a future 1st round pick for Critt makes the most sense for both teams.

[Soul Bro 1,419]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

I still contend that a 1.5mil trade exception and a future 1st round pick for Critt makes the most sense for both teams.

 

Agree

[bhnole 153]

As long as the 1st rounder is lottery protected, I would be all for it.

 

Developing players will not be any kind of priority soon, we can always fill out the roster with vets willing to play for the Min. for a shot at a ring.

[bgassassin 0]

quote:

Originally posted by JonBoy418:

(and maybe the Griz fans here can help out)

 

See my previous post.

 

 

And no, the TE would not be the best thing for us.

[CaliMagicFan 0]

Thanks for the insight, Grizz fans. And if JCritt isn't going to be a PG, I don't want him, at least if we have to give up a 1st rounder.

[Murphy13 185]

it would seem from what the memphis fans are saying...that bogans would be a better player for them. not to mention he is an expiring deal that will put them 3 more million under the cap.

 

i am not as concerned about javaris' pg production as some. he would only need to be a contributor for us, much like dooling-who never really put up pg numbers.

 

long story short, i like javaris...but considering he came from the latter half of the first round himself, i think it would be a little rich to give up a first rounder and a solid contributor for him. that being said, we dont need the first round pick, and bogans doesnt exactly fit the need that we had for him last season...so i think that memphis should do this deal. it is more than fair for javaris. i agree, a TE doesnt really help memphis in this deal, because the TE wont effect how far under the salary cap they go...so its useless.

 

memphis fans, how opposed are you to trading darko away?