New PG poll, will it matter?

[jonathan 0]

Richnba, at this point I would like to see anybody with the starting spot other than Jameer and I think our other p/gs need a chance or maybe you like nelson so much that you want him starting the remaining of the season no matter what.Nelson need to go bench and B.Hill has to do it. I gotta leave now but I have a question, Why Hill didnt play Carlos last night ? There is something happening and the media tried to ask Carlos on national t.v with no responce, but I know and some of you know too. Talk to you later...

[ibonedteribell 0]

quote:

Arroyo had gotten so bad tha the was to the point where he would stop looking for his teammates on certain possesions as Meer does now to, neither of them should be starting.

During this short period of time he was slumping he got benched and responded well from the benching. Most carlos critics always remember his bad times. Reminds me of the comments at Julius Cesar's burial,"The evil that men do lives after them;

The good is oft interred with their bones;" Now how many times has Jameer been benched for his actions?

[richnba 3]

quote:

Originally posted by jonathan:

Richnba, at this point I would like to see anybody with the starting spot other than Jameer and I think our other p/gs need a chance or maybe you like nelson so much that you want him starting the remaining of the season no matter what.Nelson need to go bench and B.Hill has to do it. I gotta leave now but I have a question, Why Hill didnt play Carlos last night ? There is something happening and the media tried to ask Carlos on national t.v with no responce, but I know and some of you know too. Talk to you later...

 

If u read my whole post I said that Nelson nor Arroyo should start.

 

Nelson needs to be benched, he wont though because Brian loves the kid

 

Ibone, Arroyo didnt really respond well, he came baq and was doing exactly the same thing, he was out for himself and no one else.

 

Arroyo looks good when he is making all them ridiculous shots he takes, but it is when he is missing that u see the real Arroyo.

[Jose 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Adam_Magic:

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Originally posted by ibonedteribell:

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Originally posted by 30Assists:

Back to the 'athletic' comment: Stockton wasn't exactly Kevin Garnett out there, but I seem to remember him having a pretty good career.

 

The PG position is based more on basketball IQ than straight speed or leaping ability (count the number of Jason Kidd dunks, please). Deiner's way up there on the team as far as that's concerned. I don't want to blow him out of proportion, though.

 

I'd kind of like to see Deiner play a few games in a row and for more than 2-3 minutes at a time before passing judgement.

I think he deserves another opportunity but is it real for Brian to use him at this stage, ths team is going to pieces now because they know some players are being protected no matter what. Jammer is loosing respect and credibility among his teamates because of this. If he doesnt hit the bench nobody will follow Brian Hill's instructions.

 

That is true but the problem is playing Carlos for 30mins a game is even scarier than Jameer, if you think Jameer chucks up needless shots then wait to see what Arroyo would do with those minutes!

 

At least Diener has a basketball IQ, which as 30assists says, is the most important thing about the PG position!

 

Travis Diener doesn't posssed great basketball IQ like Kidd or Stockon, please don't even compare them. Diener is an excellent shooter.

 

Nelson contributes more to the PG position than Diener. Atleast you can depend on Nelson sometimes to make plays happend. Diener is NOT a playmaker or the guy you want to hold the ball.

 

Diener is poor at breaking down the defense, this is why our offense is so stationary when he's on the floor.

 

Carlos Arroyo is the best passer on the team. He hasn't even utilized his passing much this season.

 

Arroyo averages 7.5 assist per 40 minutes, highest on Orlando by far. Jameer comes in second, and Diener is 3rd.

 

 

Let me ask you a question, since you indicate Diener has such great basketball IQ...where have you seen this? DIENER RARELY plays, so what games do you have to back up your agruement? Diener doesn't play cause his ability is limited. He'll be a 3rd string PG at his prime. Great shooter, no question. His defense, passing ability, and ability to penatrate is extremely questionable.

 

Travis Diener career high in assist is 5, he only had 5 assist in one game...please. Diener isn't a great talent, nor starter material. I'm sick of people labeling him over Nelson, Dooling or Arroyo.

 

Everyone in the NBA has basketball IQ. I like how you award Diener with basketball IQ, cause the rest of his ability to play basketball is limited. Diener is an undersized PG who plays like he's 4 foot tall.

 

Can you imagine Diener get starting minutes? PG's like Arenas or Williams will blow by him. Diener is fragile defensively. Even though he puts the effort in it, he's not affective.

 

Diener owns skills that would be more appropriate for a shooting guard. At best Diener is an average passer. Arroyo is proven to be an excellent passer(top 5 in the NBA with the Pistons in assist for 40 minutes) Nelson for some reason has the ability to break down the defense with his penatration and make good passers to Howard or Battie, but his mentality doesn't fit that. Dooling is a combo guard.

 

Diener isn't special, he is what you see. Don't get hyped up into believing Diener will emerge some year as a starting PG cause he won't.

See what Arroyo does with big minutes? Arroyo produces well with big minutes. Arroyo is accually a better starter than bench player. The guy can average 15 and 5 in 30 minutes of play easily if given the opportunity.

 

Jonathan said it best, Arroyo is the most capable productive starter. I'm not dissing Diener here, I like him as a 3rd string PG, especially when he's always hustling if we're losing or winning. Let Arroyo and Dooling run the show at PG, Nelson can play SG.

[magicfreak#1 0]

start dooling, diener off the bench, lose arroyo, and use jameer as trade bate with hedo

 

arroyo is qualified to start in the euro-league

and does not possess a HIGH basketball IQ, and in-fact the league has many stupid players within it that make it on sheer talent alone.

Basketball IQ is not a given 4 everybody in the NBA, and people who don't understand this probably don't know what the difference is between a good shot and a bad one, although there is no reason to explain this, as there is no "cure" for lack of IQ.

 

Also FYI diener is the best shooter on the team.

[Emory889 353]

Jose, I honestly don't even know where to begin on your post. You said so many things that are just flat out wrong that this will take a while...

 

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Travis Diener doesn't posssed great basketball IQ like Kidd or Stockon, please don't even compare them. Diener is an excellent shooter.

 

No one compared Diener to Kidd or Stockton. It was merely pointed out that there have been some very good point guards in the league that aren't athletic specimens.

 

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Diener is poor at breaking down the defense, this is why our offense is so stationary when he's on the floor.

 

As opposed to how great our offense looks now? I have seen the offense when Diener and JJ are in and it is by far more fluid. No One moves when Carlos and Jameer are in the game because they know they won't get the ball.

 

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Carlos Arroyo is the best passer on the team. He hasn't even utilized his passing much this season.

 

Why in Gods name hasn't he? He got way more minutes than most backup point guards get this season. His job is to pass the ball so if he isn't utilizing it the only one that can be blamed is him.

 

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Arroyo averages 7.5 assist per 40 minutes, highest on Orlando by far. Jameer comes in second, and Diener is 3rd.

 

For starters 7 assists in 40 minutes is not a good number for a point guard. There are alot of players that average 7 assists in far fewer minutes. The reason that Arroyo's and Jameer's numbers are even that high is that they dominate the ball on offense. Its almost impossible for anyone else to get an assist when Carlos dribbles for 20 second, runs a pick and roll and then pulls up for a 20 foot jumper. Its also pretty hard to say what Diener assists could be with the limited minutes he gets. I will say this...he always moves the ball and I rarely see him make a questionable pass. That is way more than I can say for our other point guards.

 

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Let me ask you a question, since you indicate Diener has such great basketball IQ...where have you seen this? DIENER RARELY plays, so what games do you have to back up your agruement? Diener doesn't play cause his ability is limited. He'll be a 3rd string PG at his prime. Great shooter, no question. His defense, passing ability, and ability to penatrate is extremely questionable.

 

Its hilarious to me that you are willing to write off Diener and say he doesn't have the athletic ability to be a good point guard. How do you know what Diener can do when you have already said several times that he rarely plays? I don't know if Diener can be a good point guard or not but I do know that Jameer and Arroyo haven't gotten the job done all year. I am more than willing to give Diener an opportunity because he can't do any worse. The thing I love about Diener the most is that he doesn't try to do anything that he can't. He sticks to what he does best and that is the definition of a high basktball IQ. Tell me you can say the same thing about our other pgs as they force up bad shot after shot.

 

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Travis Diener career high in assist is 5, he only had 5 assist in one game...please. Diener isn't a great talent, nor starter material. I'm sick of people labeling him over Nelson, Dooling or Arroyo.

 

I'm sick of people using a statline to define what a good point guard is. I couldn't care less how many assists a point guard gets. If the offense is running smoothly then the point guard is doing his job.

 

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Diener owns skills that would be more appropriate for a shooting guard.

 

So Diener is too small and lack the athletcism to play the point but you want to play him at the two. Brilliant!

 

I don't know if Diener can be a starter or not and neither do you. Until we see him get significant minutes we will never know. What I do know is that this offense has been flat out terrible all year and changes need to be made. Jameer and Arroyo have had their opportunites.

[Rafael17222 0]

Man, I can't wait until we get a real starting PG that way we can put all of these kinds of discussions to rest once and for all.

[The Dude Abides 0]

The dude has been feeling pretty blue today....but along came this jewel and really I got a really good chuckle from it.

 

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Travis Diener doesn't posssed great basketball IQ like Kidd or Stockon, please don't even compare them. Diener is an excellent shooter.

 

Unfounded, misquoted comparisions aside, TD has more BBall IQ in his little finger than ANY other option at PG we have.

 

quote:

Nelson contributes more to the PG position than Diener. Atleast you can depend on Nelson sometimes to make plays happend. Diener is NOT a playmaker or the guy you want to hold the ball.

 

Right... never has been a playmaker, especially whe he LED marqutte with Dwade.

 

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Diener is poor at breaking down the defense, this is why our offense is so stationary when he's on the floor.

What games were you watching? I know its been awhile, but you must be confused - the only time the Magic have looked smooth with some ball movement and movement away from the ball is when Diener got minutes.

 

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Carlos Arroyo is the best passer on the team. He hasn't even utilized his passing much this season.

That shows immense BBall IQ - LOL.

 

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Arroyo averages 7.5 assist per 40 minutes, highest on Orlando by far. Jameer comes in second, and Diener is 3rd.

Heres a worthless stat for ya -CA leads the NBA with fans that think hes the second coming of christ.

 

 

quote:

Let me ask you a question, since you indicate Diener has such great basketball IQ...where have you seen this? DIENER RARELY plays, so what games do you have to back up your agruement? Diener doesn't play cause his ability is limited. He'll be a 3rd string PG at his prime. Great shooter, no question. His defense, passing ability, and ability to penatrate is extremely questionable.

Well, for one. His teammates have expressed this point before, he is always said to have a great BBall IQ - and as far as bieng a third PG in his prime - I guess thats T.B.D., atleast we can say more informed things like - CA IS a 3rd string option.

 

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Travis Diener career high in assist is 5, he only had 5 assist in one game...please. Diener isn't a great talent, nor starter material. I'm sick of people labeling him over Nelson, Dooling or Arroyo.

Maybe a taste of what your dishin out is the best medicine? lord knows no one here has ever gotten sick of hearing how good Arroyo is only to watch him flounder his way up and down the court. this is just idiotic.

 

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Everyone in the NBA has basketball IQ. I like how you award Diener with basketball IQ, cause the rest of his ability to play basketball is limited. Diener is an undersized PG who plays like he's 4 foot tall.

I like how you awarded other people with talent based on their nationality and then in the same sentence use pure bull crap to illustrate a point - Poitns are awarded on merit - not overreaction or purely false statements as hes 4 foot tall.

 

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Can you imagine Diener get starting minutes? PG's like Arenas or Williams will blow by him. Diener is fragile defensively. Even though he puts the effort in it, he's not affective.

yes, I can imagine him getting starting minutes, well all have seen what giving the other 2 the start gets us, and its not stellar defencxe in case you have missed that one as well.

 

quote:

Diener owns skills that would be more appropriate for a shooting guard. At best Diener is an average passer. Arroyo is proven to be an excellent passer(top 5 in the NBA with the Pistons in assist for 40 minutes) Nelson for some reason has the ability to break down the defense with his penatration and make good passers to Howard or Battie, but his mentality doesn't fit that. Dooling is a combo guard.

so oyu want a slow, 4 foot tall SG, that has no BBall IQ, is a stagnant player, with zero ability to go lane??? Hmmm. I think you may have a hidden agenda, just maybe.

 

quote:

Diener isn't special, he is what you see. Don't get hyped up into believing Diener will emerge some year as a starting PG cause he won't.

See what Arroyo does with big minutes? Arroyo produces well with big minutes. Arroyo is accually a better starter than bench player. The guy can average 15 and 5 in 30 minutes of play easily if given the opportunity.

Good, Im glad to hear that he can average those kinda numbers, must be like his passing game, just not goin to do it this year as you pointed out earlier, once again, He must have tremendous BBall IQ to be able to do that , but not.

 

quote:

Jonathan said it best, Arroyo is the most capable productive starter. I'm not dissing Diener here, I like him as a 3rd string PG, especially when he's always hustling if we're losing or winning. Let Arroyo and Dooling run the show at PG, Nelson can play SG.

well sadly, I am having to diss CA here in order to show some palces where you bent the truth too far and made some questionable statements, its not hat I dislike the guy, I dislike his game, big difference, I appreciate your restraint in dissing TD, it makes you seem a bit more in tune with reality than I initially thought.

[barnettej 263]

We need a consistent PG, none of our PG's are consistent.

[serviviente 0]

barnettej you are right. the problem is that at this time our most inconsistant pg is running the show in the middle of a playoff hunt!!!! for the love of God sit Jameer down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jonathan 0]

Men, let me explain it a little better, first I dont like to bash on any player, if they are in the nba is because the got talent,but some of them are blessed with their coach and they never loose their staring spot when they strugle and this is Jameers case.

Second, people were taking about Arroyo strugling whe he gets a lot of minutes and when the stats say otherwise...

We are loosing,so why not let him try? It's like anybody can have the oportunity except Arroyo...

[barnettej 263]

Because Carlos hasnt proved that he can run the team consistently. The minutes he does get he has been off and on.

 

As for Jameer, this is the year we are trying to figure out if he is our future PG. Thats why he is getting the playing time.

 

We have plenty of time with Carlos, although we all know he isnt going to be the Future PG, because if he was he would have been starting.

 

So its in Nelsons hands to show the Magic that he is a fit for this team or not. So this is a critical part for the Magic, because we need to know.