Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 And I'm sure that is more beneficial somehow, though Shaq contested that was the reason for his poor shooting-not allowing for proper grip of the ball (FWIW) Though a quick glimpse at the historical significance of hand size has yielded even fewer talented players near the top than wingspan-though Kawhi Leonard is a notable exception. He's pretty tall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Randle is more explosive. And so is Dequan Jones. Murphy's exact rant about measureables and busts can be applied against him so easily and it only takes 2 sentences. And that explosiveness is usually important. I'm just going by what I see man. Vonleh is probably a better shooter?? and will be bigger but skill wise, I don't see Vonleh as a player to be all giddy about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 He's pretty tall I don't get his logic. Hand size limited shaq's shooting. Vonleh has large hands and clearly CAN shoot. And that explosiveness is usually important. I'm just going by what I see man. Vonleh is probably a better shooter?? and will be bigger but skill wise, I don't see Vonleh as a player to be all giddy about. You don't see his shooting, ball handling, rebounding and shot blocking ability? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nyce_1 311 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Smart & Gordon headed to Philly for a workout. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 You don't see his shooting, ball handling, rebounding and shot blocking ability? Yeah I see those things but I also see robotic agility and lack of explosiveness. I would say Andrew Nicholson has better moves and agility and Vonleh has better defense. So what does that get you? I did see the one play where he was dribbling up court but I saw that quite a few times in the Randle clip as well. Comparing both clips, Randle looked better imo. Here we are going through another rebuild and hoping for a great draft this year and to be talking about Vonleh just sucks for me. If we were talking about getting him at number 9-12, then ok, I'm cool with that, but in the top 5? I just not a fan of it. Doesn't mean he won't prove me wrong. I mean, he's a kid and he will grow another inch or so at least. I don't want to put a ceiling on anyone but his robotic footwork/lack of awarness and explosiveness that I see just irks me about him. I think I really want Parker here. I love Wiggin's athleticism but I think Parker is that guy who will come in and change your franchise. He's not a franchise player but definitely will put us ahead of the curve I believe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Your long rant neglected the simple fact that I was discussing Vonlehs measureables only. Its a shame you didn't read my post before you strung your emotionally charged diatribe together, but you get wound up so fast in your quest to always be right in your abrasive way that none of this is surprising. Lets see who goes first in the draft shall we? If I'm not mistaken wingspan (as you pointed out) is directly related to measurables? My response to such was therefore entirely relevant. And the choice to mention the other stuff is owed to your glossing over of facts that pertain to actual skill since you not only insinuated that I merely speak in phrases and don't use facts/links today but you also failed to respond when I brought these to your attention weeks ago during our last debate in an attempt to bring your tendency to ignore facts to light. It wasn't convenient to you then...just as it isn't now. Of course you are focusing on his length, that's all you got. When you focus on the Shaq thing-you missed the point, the relevant part was how few people with similarly large hands amounted to anything useful. Even if Shaq didn't use that as an excuse for his poor shooting, how does it have any relevance to Vonleh? I never said Vonleh couldn't shoot, I said that it would appear hand size means little in the NBA judging from the list of largest hands. How do abnormally large hands help Nicholson? You completely missed the context/point on the Shaq comment considering your subsequent posts-the mentioning of Shaq at all was purely conversational in nature, just like with Kawhi...acknowledging exceptions while remembering when someone like Shaq discredited hand size himself, I didn't say that was why he couldn't hit a FT-its not my logic you question, it's Shaq's...hence why I proceeded the comment with FWIW. You grasp at straws because the argument for Vonleh is largely done with a tape measure. *Measurables are good for what if's but more often than not merely cloud judgement for what really matters-skill...something that Randle happens to trump Vonleh in. Given the time of year relative to the draft, its what you call posturing or smoke screens. And the purpose of posting the links was not to ascertain that Randle is more explosive, which is evident, but that he is a plain better player. Skill, athleticism, performance, quality of competition, consistency, focus of the other team, and even demeanor were all in Randle's favor-but yes, you are right, Vonleh is taller with longer arms and fingers. You have something to hang your hat on. Finally, it means nothing if someone drafts Vonleh over Randle as Vonleh has good upside and good size. If a team feels that way about him, more power to them-that by no means proves you right or wrong in any way. This is not a discussion about who will drafted first, but which draftees we believe will be better players. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicFanInNevada 51 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 12/Afflalo/Harkless/Harris or 12/Vuc/Harkless If need be, a future 1st as well in either scenario. For a rebuilding team this is the kind of draft you hope for, we need to take full advantage. I'd be devastated if we traded Vucevic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 12/Afflalo/Harkless/Harris or 12/Vuc/Harkless If need be, a future 1st as well in either scenario. For a rebuilding team this is the kind of draft you hope for, we need to take full advantage. 3 players and a draft pick for the number 1? What else would we have to take back? Waiters and someone else to make it work... I also don't like the idea of giving up Nik unless we get Embiid and the Brass feel his injury is surmountable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Optimist Prime 197 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 3 players and a draft pick for the number 1? What else would we have to take back? Waiters and someone else to make it work... I also don't like the idea of giving up Nik unless we get Embiid and the Brass feel his injury is surmountable. If we're targeting Embiid, we can probably just keep the #4 pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nyce_1 311 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 with a 4-6 month recovery, I'd take Embiid if Wiggins/Parker/Exum are gone by 4. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zollman 45 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/pbt-nba-draft-preview-the-orlando-magic/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Per Kurt Helin, Embiid/Payton FTW.... I am starting to warm up to the idea, but it still makes me a bit nauseous to think about Oden 2.0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 I'm just ready for Thursday. There's nothing left to discuss so I'm just stating facts about vonleh to see how people react... Vonleh is a power forward Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
