2014 Draft Thread

[Magicman28 295]

ESPN's Jeff Goodman made these NBA Comps for Vonleh…

 

Noah Vonleh

 

High end: Chris Webber. Both are big, strong forwards who bring versatility to the table. Vonleh hasn't shown a ton of it yet, but he can step out and handle the ball and make shots. Webber averaged 20.7 points and 9.8 rebounds during his career.

 

Low end: Horace Grant. This is the comparison if Vonleh doesn't become much of a scorer. Grant was a terrific piece for a championship team and averaged 11.2 points and 8.1 rebounds in his career.

 

I'd take either one of those guys….

 

Chad Ford has consistently made the Chris Bosh comp….And in a an audio discussion with a Jazz commentator compared Vonleh to Karl Malone…An NBA Hall of Famer.

 

I've seen videos of Vonleh in game action shooting 3's with picture perfect form….Something Malone, Grant or Webber could not do.

 

Lastly, the kid is 18 years old….Younger than Exum….Is probably gonna get bigger….May be the youngest kid in the draft.

 

Not sure what some of you can't see….

 

Can't see Webber. Not one bit. Why? Because he can shoot from the mid range? Webber was a great passer. His court vision and handles were unheard of for a PF and his low post footwork were smooth and finesse unlike Noah's robotic movements. Horace grant? Don't see the comparison either but that might be the best case scenerio statistically but does that warrant a 4th pick? I guess if that's the best available which goes back to my original discontent with our position in this draft. With such a high pick we're basically looking for role players. Sickening we half a**ed tank for a role player with the 4th pick.

 

 

 

[ball junkie 277]

Guys who move up draft boards primarily due to measurables are scary. Vonleh is not a great athlete, doesn't seem to have great awareness (yet), and and makes Kendrick Perkins look like Hakeem in the post (currently). Could he be good? Sure, he's got a lot of time to get better. But let's not act like this guy is a sure thing because he has big hands, has flashed a jump shot, and some extraordinarily lofty comparisons have been made.

 

I'm going to coin a new term -- it's called "Junkie-ing". This is when you take the word of others as fact and tend not to form your own opinions.

 

Example: "Man, Chad Ford said Darko is a can't miss prospect! I don't feel like watching much tape though, I think I'll just settle for Junkie-ing this one and take his word for it."

 

I take it my post got your attention,lol…And to be honest with 2 middle school age kids who both excel in sports I watched very little NBA last year and hardly any Magic games.

 

Please forgive me if I value their opinions more than the ones I read on this forum.

 

And thanks for the props, I'll take it !!

[ML6 520]

So in other words, since you watched hardly any Magic games last year, you admit that your assessment of certain players fitting best with this team had nothing to do with an actual opinion that was formed within your own brain?

[Magicman28 295]

If Vonleh showed signs of having good court vision/awareness or a willingness to pass, I'd be more on board for him, but I haven't seen much of that form what I've seen.

 

I could handle his lack of jumping ability, it's not John Amachei bad, but it's not explosive at all but I could handle selecting him with the 4th pick if he showed more finesse in his footwork and a higher bball IQ. Granted, he's still so young and raw but look at Embiid. Didn't play ball a long time and his footwork is very smooth and his bball iq looks to be high. Noah will certainly improve with the right coaching but the things I see that he lacks, it's hard to to see him improve much on.

[Murphy13 185]

I don't think we have a shot at Parker or Exum unless we also throw Tobias Harris into any deal that has us moving up in the draft.

 

Harris should be entirely expendable unless we aren't targeting a SF and we trade AA.

[Murphy13 185]

Can't see Webber. Not one bit. Why? Because he can shoot from the mid range? Webber was a great passer. His court vision and handles were unheard of for a PF and his low post footwork were smooth and finesse unlike Noah's robotic movements. Horace grant? Don't see the comparison either but that might be the best case scenerio statistically but does that warrant a 4th pick? I guess if that's the best available which goes back to my original discontent with our position in this draft. With such a high pick we're basically looking for role players. Sickening we half a**ed tank for a role player with the 4th pick.

 

That writer has been literally the only person I have seen linking Vonleh to either of those players. Rashard and Nich are both more accurate probably.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

 

And yeah Im serious. There is zero reason to smokescreen Smart. He is a projected pick at 7, not 2 or 3.

 

I thought I gave a good reason. If you want to trade back in the draft for a player you think you can get at 6 or 7, you smokescreen to get interest. Say Boston loves Vonleh and Randle, but are rightly thinking Orlando might take Vonleh at four, and that Utah might take Randle at 5. Orlando gives love to Vonleh, then leaks unverifiable disinterest in Smart. Boston is in a pickle. So when Orlando offers to trade 4 to Boston for 6 and whatever, Boston is relieved, takes the deal. The smokescreen is there to keep people guessing as to what Orlando will do. If Boston was only worried about Utah snagging Vonleh because everyone knows Orlando loves Smart, then Boston may not make the move. This is what good GMs do. They find the easy money, the easy extra picks. If he were a projected 2 or 3, then maybe there's no reason to smokescreen, because they're picking at 4 (unless you think a bad report from another team would make 2 or 3 ignore their own workouts, which is nuts).

 

As for Oladipo last year, there really was no reason to smokescreen, because everyone knew no one was looking to trade into the 1 or 2 spot in a weak draft. Orlando was going to pick whoever they wanted to, and they knew for certain that Oladipo wasn't going first overall to a team with two guards drafted in the previous two drafts. Also, it was by no means a certainty that Orlando would pick Oladipo. Some still had them liking McLemore, Noel, any number of guys. A LOT of people thought they would grab Noel specifically to tank another season. Clearly interest in Noel was not so high, as he fell to 6. So trying to suggest that because Orlando allowed people to know their interest in Oladipo, that they would just lay all their cards out on the table, even that they did so last year, is fallacy.

[ball junkie 277]

So in other words, since you watched hardly any Magic games last year, you admit that your assessment of certain players fitting best with this team had nothing to do with an actual opinion that was formed within your own brain?

 

You do realize that you are talking about 1 of the few guys on this board that has not been on the Exum wagon except for a few days where Pelton convinced me he was a better prospect.

 

I've posted this more than once….I think Exum is a better prospect now but the question marks for me are more with Exum and less with Vonleh….And yes, fit is a big one on top of the other's that have been discussed over and over.

[ML6 520]

Not quite sure you understood what I was getting at, but that doesn't surprise me.

 

except for the few days where Pelton convinced me he was a better prospect.

 

And that quote is gold.

[magicblue 315]

You guys have short term memories. It was pretty well documented how Oladipo blew away the Magic last year before the draft happened. No one was surprised we drafted him.

 

And yeah Im serious. There is zero reason to smokescreen Smart. He is a projected pick at 7, not 2 or 3.

 

There's no reason to believe anything we're hearing about any prospect positive or negative at this stage of the game and the reasons may not be apparent to fans, so I recommend we take any report with a grain of salt.

[Catman 380]

I have played enough ball beyond high school to become gainfully employed at a basketball academy outside Charlotte, I am firmly entrenched in the game so I don't know where you were going with the comment; that being said his movement outside of the paint does not impress me. He did fine this season on defense as a whole, but just OK outside the paint in particular (but no better than Randle). His tendency (or apparent lack thereof) to close out on shooters does not register in my assessment of him...at worst that's merely a conditioning issue. I am looking at more important factors like his footwork and hip plane relative to movement. Neither of these are nearly as effective with Vonleh as Randle, once again for comparison purposes.

 

I get it, you feel Vonleh is a better prospect than Randle. I can see where you come from (shooting form is good and he is longer), but I still do not agree at this point. Randle is only 'what you see is what you get' because he actually performs against better opponents and multiple defenders at that while being fully scrutinized by many since he was in high school...not because he is an Emeka Okafor that has peaked. Vonleh's output actually regressed as the season went on and he did not play well against good teams save for one midseason tilt against Michigan State and later against Wisconsin-both losses. Randle is only a few(edit 8) months older than Vonleh and far more skilled with a better body to come in and make an impact. Why is Vonleh poised for growth but not Randle? As far as the foot surgery thing goes, I don't get the impression its a big deal-or that he actually needs it anyway. Even if he does it would benefit us as it may make him attainable with some moves. That being said, Randle was the iron man this year among the top prospects, and Vonleh was actually the one suffering from a foot injury. They both are going to be very good players in this league, but it will take Vonleh a couple years to make an impact. Randle will probably come close to putting up double doubles from the start.

 

I don't need your resume, I was not specifying you at all. My point was that if you see some of his film he is unjustly criticized in the commentary by people who don't understand simple concepts. Some people are swayed by comments and forum opinions and don't understand why something happened on film. Not saying you.

 

I disagree that Randle has the better body. Vonleh has some of the best measurables in the history of the draft. He is still pretty raw, but that is ok, since we have other options at PF to start the season..

 

Randle definitely WILL need surgery to correct his foot. It is a medical fact at this point. The question is when? Teams are already asking why he didn't do it this summer. There is a lot of information about this out there.

 

Rob Hennigan is not taking big guys with injuries in the lottery.

 

Since we both agree they will both be good players, I think Vonleh can contribute enough year 1 to develop his confidence and court awareness. I think he ends up being a star of the draft 3 years from now due to his shotmaking and rebounding ability. Playing next to Vuc, we will be one of the best rebounding teams in the league.

 

 

No disagreement with the shooting. If we're going to describe one quality to get excited about in this guy, it's his shooting potential for his position.

 

I might be alone in this, but what I tend to value most when watching a prospect is his ability to make smart plays. I primarily try to look at whether a guy has the potential to be a smart player with a high bball IQ who routinely makes plays that benefit the team. That quality has staying power in the league and I'm just not sure I see that with Vonleh yet. Likewise (and I know I'm alone with this weird assessment), clumsiness and lack of fluidity/grace seem to be poor projections. Vonleh, at this point in time, is undoubtedly clumsy in the post and isn't sure what to do quite yet. With time he'll improve, but his rawness and what I see as a potential lack of upside (due to a lack of elite athleticism) prevent me from getting too excited about him as a prospect.

 

Yes his post game is not there yet, but he shows flashes. That is mainly due to playing SF before. But he can be a face up guy like Rashard and do a ton of damage while he develops his inside game. If you think of Vonleh as Rashard Lewis, but more of a true power forward, then it makes more sense towards why I believe the Magic draft him.

[Catman 380]

There's no reason to believe anything we're hearing about any prospect positive or negative at this stage of the game and the reasons may not be apparent to fans, so I recommend we take any report with a grain of salt.

 

So you think we will take Smart at 4?