Gamethread: Kings at Magic

[JJZFL 619]

2 hours ago, Mauro Pedrosa said:

Some people will be mad at this, but I was really happy with yesterday's loss. It was a critical game so early in the season, to see if our team should go for a playoff spot with the veteran core or to figure out if we still were who we always were.

We lost, the vet core looked as bad as ever, Bamba had some great flashes mixed with rookie mistakes.

I want us to get a top 10 pick and for BIG to be great. As I said a few days ago, having horrible PGs is stealth tanking and I'm fine with it.

This “let’s be bad so we can get good” philosophy has led us to where we are now, in my opinion.  I’m not interested.  Instead let’s try the harder route of incrementally addressing our weaknesses so we can at least make it to round 1 of the playoffs, instead of continually hoping to beat the odds and land a superstar in the draft.

I do agree completely that having the same starters from last year still playing a majority of the minutes is not getting us anywhere.  I was upset last year when the new GM said he needed a year to evaluate the team.  I hated the idea of watching them go through the motions for another year instead of just watching the previous years games on video.  So I certainly get how people feel about this year.  

[Magicpassion 4]

I definitely expected more because we got a jump on things with everyone in camp early and in shape. I expected us to come out of gates strong even with a difficult schedule. Our shooting is a joke, perhaps worst or close to it in the league so far and basically we have the same core back that are familiar with one another. The Boston win would normally be a good one, but they are playing poorly so it doesn’t have much credence at this time and we barely beat Miami at home when they have had injuries. They will be much better next meeting.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

8 minutes ago, JJZFL said:

This “let’s be bad so we can get good” philosophy has led us to where we are now, in my opinion.  I’m not interested.  Instead let’s try the harder route of incrementally addressing our weaknesses so we can at least make it to round 1 of the playoffs, instead of continually hoping to beat the odds and land a superstar in the draft.

I do agree completely that having the same starters from last year still playing a majority of the minutes is not getting us anywhere.  I was upset last year when the new GM said he needed a year to evaluate the team.  I hated the idea of watching them go through the motions for another year instead of just watching the previous years games on video.  So I certainly get how people feel about this year.  

Yeah I'm not really interested in banking on another rookie and pushing our window to 2022. 

Let's throw away another year so we can draft franchise changing players like Nerlens. Wait I meant Wiggins or Jabari. Wait I meant D'Angelo Russell, Mudiay, or hezonja. Wait I meant Brandon Ingram, Dragan Bender, or Kris Dunn. Wait I meant Fultz, Lonzo, and Jackson. 

It's one thing when you're transitioning between a contender into a rebuild and need to shift the roster from aging guys to young players. Be bad and collect rebuilding pieces. 

You don't tank for a guy to plug in next to Gordon, Isaac, and Bamba because that's not how the tanking philosophy works. At this point you need to fill holes and build a team that functions the way you want it to. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

12 minutes ago, Magicpassion said:

I definitely expected more because we got a jump on things with everyone in camp early and in shape. I expected us to come out of gates strong even with a difficult schedule. Our shooting is a joke, perhaps worst or close to it in the league so far and basically we have the same core back that are familiar with one another. The Boston win would normally be a good one, but they are playing poorly so it doesn’t have much credence at this time and we barely beat Miami at home when they have had injuries. They will be much better next meeting.

Boston had the 5th best record in the NBA right now. 

[Catalina Maria 64]

13 hours ago, All Eyes On Me said:

Feels like the 2nd or 3rd time this season that the bench lineup brought us back in to a game only to squander it late from fatigue. I’d say Clifford has to reload with the starters at the 3 minute mark when that happens, but I know why he doesn’t.

The starters suck. Remove Vuc/Fournier from the SL and see what happens. 

Ross was in the SL when we were winning last year. 

[ML6 520]

As much as I love Ross, who supplies a lot of hustle & glue, he isn't the answer either.  I wouldn't mind seeing him start but I don't think it changes much, especially long-term.  He is just so streaky and will shoot us out of just as many games as he shoots us in (if not more).  He needs to learn what a good shot looks like b/c he relies on too many crowded, fading, contorted jumpers.

But I mean Fournier is a train wreck right now.

[HeHateMe 697]

Yea I just can’t watch much more with DJ running the point and the offense running through Vuch and Fournier exclusively. I get they’re in theory our best offensive players but that should tell you all you need to know about this team. It’s just awful. 

And I totally get the people that don’t wanna tank again because it’s far from a sure thing but what are the other options? You really think Kemba is coming here? There’s so much wrong with the roster and overall culture of basketball here I don’t see a ton of light in site. 

I do like Bamba. I do like some flashes we see from Issac. I do think AG is a good 3rd option on a good team but he isn’t “the guy”. We don’t have anything else. 

I truly feel (and not trying to be some downer ) that we are years away from being anything. It’s deflating. 

[All Eyes On Me 1,210]

9 minutes ago, ML6 said:

As much as I love Ross, who supplies a lot of hustle & glue, he isn't the answer either.  I wouldn't mind seeing him start but I don't think it changes much, especially long-term.  He is just so streaky and will shoot us out of just as many games as he shoots us in (if not more).  He needs to learn what a good shot looks like b/c he relies on too many crowded, fading, contorted jumpers.

But I mean Fournier is a train wreck right now.

Ross does all the little things. I could see a contender wanting him around the deadline. He’s so effective that you can deal with his streaky shooting because his defense and hustle are always there. He’s impressed me the most so far this year. Great teammate too

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

11 minutes ago, ML6 said:

As much as I love Ross, who supplies a lot of hustle & glue, he isn't the answer either.  I wouldn't mind seeing him start but I don't think it changes much, especially long-term.  He is just so streaky and will shoot us out of just as many games as he shoots us in (if not more).  He needs to learn what a good shot looks like b/c he relies on too many crowded, fading, contorted jumpers.

But I mean Fournier is a train wreck right now.

I think the thought process with Ross is "if we're going to end up with a streaky shooter anyway we might as well pick the one that is high energy and can defend a variety of players". 

 

[ML6 520]

5 minutes ago, ?4thewin said:

I think the thought process with Ross is "if we're going to end up with a streaky shooter anyway we might as well pick the one that is high energy and can defend a variety of players". 

 

Don't disagree.  I think anything should be on the table with respect to lineup changes right now.  I also think Fournier will get out of his slump, but I'm not even sure his shooting is what's hurting us the most right now.  It's a) his inability to see teammates/plays develop right in front of him (he missed about 4 cutters for uncontested layups last night and prioritized finding his own shot) and b) his tendency to hang his head and take himself out of the game when things aren't going well.

I honestly feel like if he focused on elevating his teammates and creating some positive energy, the shooting would come back quicker.  But that just doesn't seem like part of his personality.  He's so competitive that I think he feels the need to carry the offense and then ends up pressing.  Probably doesn't help that no one else can.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I was listening to a podcast last year and the hosts were discussing some other team. Maybe OKC but I don't really remember.

But the point they made was it doesn't really make sense to have a great defensive player on your bench because you're basically wasting him. The value of a great defensive player is their ability to limit an opponent's starters. The vast majority of teams aren't going to have a bench provide anything more than supplementary scoring. So if (wing defender X) takes Johnathan Simmons out of the game that's nice but not nearly as valuable as that defender taking Evan Fournier out of the game. It does more to damage a game plan. 

So I don't know if Ross is a great defensive player but his defense might be more valuable as a starter than a bench player. 

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Also it's kind of frustrating that Grant and Simmons have been pretty bad this year, Ross and Gordon are streaky, Bamba is inconsistent, yet we've seen several times now this year Grant-Ross-Simmons-Gordon-Bamba go on amazing stretches bringing us back into games. What would we look like if Grant and Simmons were better players?