Tanking

[magicblue 315]

The concept of trying to make yourself as terrible as possible as the main means of getting better doesn't bother you even a little bit?

 

No because regardless of how many meaningless wins we get in March/April we all know how bad this team is and how much work needs to be done. Lose and get the best talent possible is the best thing for us at this point

[Franchise408 116]

The concept of trying to make yourself as terrible as possible as the main means of getting better doesn't bother you even a little bit?

 

It's honestly the most backwards philosophy in sports.

[Franchise408 116]

No because regardless of how many meaningless wins we get in March/April we all know how bad this team is and how much work needs to be done. Lose and get the best talent possible is the best thing for us at this point

 

Losing doesn't guarantee the best talent.

[magicblue 315]

Losing doesn't guarantee the best talent.

 

But it increases the odds of getting a higher pick.

[magicblue 315]

It's honestly the most backwards philosophy in sports.

 

Maybe, but it is what it is

[Orlando Magic Toaster 26]

Surely the best idea of the NBA is to appeal to the fans? I purposely won't watch a game unless it's two top 10 teams playing against each other and it's the same every year. I stop watching the lower teams this time of year, even Orlando Magic.

 

What's the point in watching Orlando vs Toronto and paying for it on league pass, it's just a waste of my time.

[magicdoc1 261]

The concept of trying to make yourself as terrible as possible as the main means of getting better doesn't bother you even a little bit?

No. Because that is not really the idea of tanking with the magic.

You can see that with The lakers and Phoenix where they rest their best players in order for them to lose.

We dont have that problem. My idea of "Tank" is just giving more playing time to Zimmerman and Mario which in fact can eventually help their development and stop playing DJ and other veterans that likely will not be here next year.

[hootie249 293]

No. Because that is not really the idea of tanking with the magic.

You can see that with The lakers and Phoenix where they rest their best players in order for them to lose.

We dont have that problem. My idea of "Tank" is just giving more playing time to Zimmerman and Mario which in fact can eventually help their development and stop playing DJ and other veterans that likely will not be here next year.

 

This man right here has it right. Anyway my take is no tanking on purpose until the last month, then all bets are off. Look we know the Magic are bad, they were actually trying to win all year and are still terrible! However the problem is about 4 or 5 other teams have actually benched veterans and given all the minutes to younger players. There is no reason we can't do the same thing. In the last 15 games i have no problem with this concept. It is tanking, everyone knows the lakers,Suns,and Sixers are straight up using bench players to tank.

It's sad because it is so obvious in the NBA. In the NFL, they just put everyone on the injured list and who can argue with that?

In baseball it's a freaking rule! All rosters are expanded in September and most teams play the youngsters. Heck in baseball the bad teams often win more when this happens.

[Franchise408 116]

No. Because that is not really the idea of tanking with the magic.

You can see that with The lakers and Phoenix where they rest their best players in order for them to lose.

We dont have that problem. My idea of "Tank" is just giving more playing time to Zimmerman and Mario which in fact can eventually help their development and stop playing DJ and other veterans that likely will not be here next year.

 

But that's not tanking. That's wisely using time to develop younger players who would more benefit from it.

 

That's not the mentality I'm opposed to.

 

The mentality I'm opposed to is the mentality that says we "need losses this time of year", and rooting for us to lose.

 

No, I want to see the younger players get developmental time, but I also want to see them succeed and win games. Even if we get lower draft picks, it would be much more important to see the players we actually DO have improve, get better, and show that they are eventually worthy of leading this franchise to success.

 

Seeing them constantly fail and lose shows us that they aren't ready. In which case, a crap shoot draft pick won't save us.

 

Even Dwight didn't single handedly turn our fortunes around. It was key pieces put around him like Turk, Nelson, Lewis, Pietrus, and for half a year, Alston, all put around Dwight altogether that turned our franchise around. Sure, Dwight ended up being the right pick that we most likely wouldn't have gotten if we had #2, however on the flip side, who knows who Emeka Okafor would have turned out if he was in Dwight's situation as well, having quality players like that around him. Draft picks aren't guaranteed from the start, and with a long history in -all- sports of seeing players fail one place yet succeed in others, hindsight might give us a lot of insight, but it doesn't tell us 100% how things would have played out if fortunes were different.

 

Purposefully tanking leads to what the Warriors were prior to 3 years ago. Trust me, I know. I've lived in the Bay Area for most all my life. The Warriors were never short on high draft picks.

 

Playing younger players to let them develop is awesome, and in and of itself is not tanking.

 

Hoping those young players perpetually lose in some sort of twisted attempt to get better IS tanking, and is an entirely ridiculous mentality.

[South_Aussie_Magic 90]

But that's not tanking. That's wisely using time to develop younger players who would more benefit from it.

 

That's not the mentality I'm opposed to.

 

The mentality I'm opposed to is the mentality that says we "need losses this time of year", and rooting for us to lose.

 

No, I want to see the younger players get developmental time, but I also want to see them succeed and win games. Even if we get lower draft picks, it would be much more important to see the players we actually DO have improve, get better, and show that they are eventually worthy of leading this franchise to success.

 

Seeing them constantly fail and lose shows us that they aren't ready. In which case, a crap shoot draft pick won't save us.

 

Even Dwight didn't single handedly turn our fortunes around. It was key pieces put around him like Turk, Nelson, Lewis, Pietrus, and for half a year, Alston, all put around Dwight altogether that turned our franchise around. Sure, Dwight ended up being the right pick that we most likely wouldn't have gotten if we had #2, however on the flip side, who knows who Emeka Okafor would have turned out if he was in Dwight's situation as well, having quality players like that around him. Draft picks aren't guaranteed from the start, and with a long history in -all- sports of seeing players fail one place yet succeed in others, hindsight might give us a lot of insight, but it doesn't tell us 100% how things would have played out if fortunes were different.

 

Purposefully tanking leads to what the Warriors were prior to 3 years ago. Trust me, I know. I've lived in the Bay Area for most all my life. The Warriors were never short on high draft picks.

 

Playing younger players to let them develop is awesome, and in and of itself is not tanking.

 

Hoping those young players perpetually lose in some sort of twisted attempt to get better IS tanking, and is an entirely ridiculous mentality.

 

What you seem to be missing though here is that, none of those peripheral players around Dwight would have made the playoffs without him. None of the other good players around Steph Curry would have done anything if he wasn't there either. Then we also have to remember the Warriors lucked into Steph. He could have gone anywhere in that s***show of a draft. What if he went somewhere else, didn't get low-balled because of his ankles and started to work on his body -- would he have reached such dazzling heights if he were a flipping Timberwolf? Would Draymond Green have been motivated to become more than what he was projected as out of college? Would the Warriors in that alternate reality be celebrated for their front office magic?

 

The point I'm trying to make is that without that ONE player, that Lebron, that Tim Duncan, that Kobe, that Dwight, that Steph... all of the peripheral stuff is completely unguaranteed. What if, in 2013 Rob had the foresight to pick Antetokuonmpo? What if in the subsequent years we got a number one overall. This whole situation could be a lot different. We suck, we could have a better team to support. But we STILL don't have that IT player to build around so the rest of it is kind of up in the air at the moment. With 8 games to play in the season, now is really not the time to be worrying about playing for pride when we could have a reasonable-ish shot at such a foundation piece. A game changer.

[Franchise408 116]

What you seem to be missing though here is that, none of those peripheral players around Dwight would have made the playoffs without him. None of the other good players around Steph Curry would have done anything if he wasn't there either. Then we also have to remember the Warriors lucked into Steph. He could have gone anywhere in that s***show of a draft. What if he went somewhere else, didn't get low-balled because of his ankles and started to work on his body -- would he have reached such dazzling heights if he were a flipping Timberwolf? Would Draymond Green have been motivated to become more than what he was projected as out of college? Would the Warriors in that alternate reality be celebrated for their front office magic?

 

The point I'm trying to make is that without that ONE player, that Lebron, that Tim Duncan, that Kobe, that Dwight, that Steph... all of the peripheral stuff is completely unguaranteed. What if, in 2013 Rob had the foresight to pick Antetokuonmpo? What if in the subsequent years we got a number one overall. This whole situation could be a lot different. We suck, we could have a better team to support. But we STILL don't have that IT player to build around so the rest of it is kind of up in the air at the moment. With 8 games to play in the season, now is really not the time to be worrying about playing for pride when we could have a reasonable-ish shot at such a foundation piece. A game changer.

 

I would argue that all those peripheral pieces put together would still do something. They might not dominate like the Warriors currently are, or contend as strongly as the Magic did in '09 and '10, but I would definitely say those pieces together would be able to do damage and have success together. If Klay or Draymond were the ONLY piece? Yea, sure, they wouldn't do much. But the same can be said of Steph also. If Hedo or Rashard or Jameer were the only pieces? Then yea, you're right, those players would fail. But again, Dwight would fail on his own as well. And he basically did, up until he got all those support pieces put in place and they all began to gel together. And those pieces didn't come together because we tanked every year. Those pieces came together because we were a steadily improving team, that finally a guy like Rashard saw as an opportunity to play for, knowing he was the last piece to put us over.

 

So yea, I'd rather those young players start building chemistry and gelling together and seeing wins from them, seeing them develop, and making this roster more appealing for players to want to come to. Because there is far more than one way to acquire a star player than through the draft, and if we had a more competitive roster than what we've fielded for 5 years now, we could have been in the mix possibly for a guy like Durant. Which was the stated reason of not making big free agent signings these prior years anyways, so we'd have cap space for the summer of Durant. And then we didn't even try to pick up the phone. Meaning, we've been saving up a bunch of cap space for...... what? Biyombo??

[My 6th Rebuild 6]

If you want to completely deter tanking? Simple....

 

Team w/ best reg season record gets #1 pick

Team with worst record gets last pick.

 

No more tanking.