Official 2015 Offseason Thread

[fan for too long 2 535]

WOW !...Aaron Gordon broke his jaw and had to have surgery for fooling around with his brother at home:

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-aaron-gordon-recovering-from-fractured-jaw-20150717-story.html

Well practicing his jumper will be put on hold. Really, fooling around and breaking your jaw. What the heck were they doing. AG's jaw is quite large by the way.

[Catman 380]

If our top 7 players continually allow that much wiggle room for roster spots 8-11 relative to the cap then there are no concerns in the future. If you live in a world where we count on 4 of our top 7 players to be on rookie scale contracts (while being a contender, of course, the goal)and assume our sixth man and seventh man will get less than MLE money then we are trouble. That is not sustainable, which I thought was the mantra of this rebuild.

 

Are you serious? Thats not even what he said.

[Voodoo Man 99]

If our top 7 players continually allow that much wiggle room for roster spots 8-11 relative to the cap then there are no concerns in the future. If you live in a world where we count on 4 of our top 7 players to be on rookie scale contracts (while being a contender, of course, the goal)and assume our sixth man and seventh man will get less than MLE money then we are trouble. That is not sustainable, which I thought was the mantra of this rebuild.

What do you mean when you say WE are in trouble? As of today, 7/17/2015, Rich DeVos's net worth is 5.5 BILLION dollars. He has already shown that he has no problem going over the cap if we have a contending team. Your tantrum over Harris's contract is becoming juvenile. If you are an Amway distributor, and afraid that Rich's senility will cause a downturn in your income, I can assure you that the company will remain solvent. Relax.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

If our top 7 players continually allow that much wiggle room for roster spots 8-11 relative to the cap then there are no concerns in the future. If you live in a world where we count on 4 of our top 7 players to be on rookie scale contracts (while being a contender, of course, the goal)and assume our sixth man and seventh man will get less than MLE money then we are trouble. That is not sustainable, which I thought was the mantra of this rebuild.

 

You were the one who brought up how much of our CAP Harris would be taking up 2 years from now, not me.

 

Just because you didn't bother to look up salaries and realize how ridiculous your complaints about that time frame actually were doesn't mean that other people pointing it out are wrong.

 

Also: we will, assuming we don't trade them away, be drafting a new rookie every year for the next 4 years, so having 4 of our rotation players, including at least 1 starter, on rookie scale contracts wouldn't exactly be a shocking development as it would be "solid drafting and development". Side note: Not sure why you're saying 4 players in the top 7 when I only mentioned 3, but whatever.

 

Lastly, if you're that concerned about sustainability of CAP, I'd recommend you never, ever look up the current salary breakdown of the San Antonio Spurs. It might give you a stroke to see how much their top 5 players are making. And I won't even mention Cleveland.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

I'm going to ask a stupid question: why is CAP always capitalized?

 

Strictly speaking, it isn't. It's just something I did once to differentiate between the salary CAP and having a "cap" on how much you want to spend, and it sort of stuck as a habit of mine.

 

It's ridiculous, I admit, and you should probably laugh at me for doing it. Cutestory and Captain Hi-Top used to give me grief about it all the time.

[~O~ 565]

Pat Riley LeBron James built a dynasty with 3 stars and like 6-7 D-Leaguers so...

 

Lets make sure this is clear.

[Magician_T 2]

Strictly speaking, it isn't. It's just something I did once to differentiate between the salary CAP and having a "cap" on how much you want to spend, and it sort of stuck as a habit of mine.

 

It's ridiculous, I admit, and you should probably laugh at me for doing it. Cutestory and Captain Hi-Top used to give me grief about it all the time.

 

Ha, Cutestory. The memories.

[Murphy13 185]

Ok, so spending a large chunk of the future cap on a person that could ultimately be our sixth man...but possibly our fourth or fifth guy when we have 4 other guys who will likely command even more money within a year or two of the cap increase....without even addressing our 'star FA' addition yet doesn't concern anyone. Check.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Ok, so spending a large chunk of the future cap on a person that could ultimately be our sixth man...but possibly our fourth or fifth guy when we have 4 other guys who will likely command even more money within a year or two of the cap increase....without even addressing our 'star FA' addition yet doesn't concern anyone. Check.

 

 

IT'S NOT A HUGE CHUNK OF OUR CAP. WHEN GUYS NEED TO BE RESIGNED HE WILL BE LESS THAN 15% OF OUR CAP AND THAT'S NOT EVEN CONSIDERING LUXURY TAX LEVELS. WHAT AREN'T YOU UNDERSTANDING?

[Murphy13 185]

You were the one who brought up how much of our CAP Harris would be taking up 2 years from now, not me.

 

Just because you didn't bother to look up salaries and realize how ridiculous your complaints about that time frame actually were doesn't mean that other people pointing it out are wrong.

 

Also: we will, assuming we don't trade them away, be drafting a new rookie every year for the next 4 years, so having 4 of our rotation players, including at least 1 starter, on rookie scale contracts wouldn't exactly be a shocking development as it would be "solid drafting and development". Side note: Not sure why you're saying 4 players in the top 7 when I only mentioned 3, but whatever.

 

Lastly, if you're that concerned about sustainability of CAP, I'd recommend you never, ever look up the current salary breakdown of the San Antonio Spurs. It might give you a stroke to see how much their top 5 players are making. And I won't even mention Cleveland.

 

I have looked up salaries, my complaints aren't ridiculous, and it won't seem ridiculous when the cap stops going up exponentially and the free money dries up and we were left with Harris when he had no other real suitors-we bid against ourselves again. I don't like the deal, and explained why it doesn't make sense for the team we have/are building, he doesn't fit. You don't agree, OK, doesn't make either of us wrong or right. Forgive me for having more concern about sustainability years two and beyond than those who think 'oh well, the cap is having a magical once in a generation increase-lets use that opportunity on Tobias Harris!' Please...

 

Payton, Oladipo, Hezonja, Gordon will all need to be addressed within two years of the cap increase in '17. Assuming those are four of our top 7 is where that came from, of course, Nik will need a new contract by then too. Fournier perhaps? Again, our yet to be determined star FA acquisition will play into the equation well before then as well.

 

For the love of all that is holy, stop using San Antonio as a litmus for what we are trying to do! It is not the same animal. Our teams are not built the same, our teams do not have the same pull, our teams do not have the same respect, our teams will not behave the same. If we were able to get players of the David West caliber for the vet minimum then I would have zero issue with signing Tobias Harris to be one of the top 15-20 salaries in the whole league...though the David West's would likely have an issue with that.

[Magicman28 295]

I have looked up salaries, my complaints aren't ridiculous, and it won't seem ridiculous when the cap stops going up exponentially and the free money dries up and we were left with Harris when he had no other real suitors-we bid against ourselves again. I don't like the deal, and explained why it doesn't make sense for the team we have/are building, he doesn't fit. You don't agree, OK, doesn't make either of us wrong or right. Forgive me for having more concern about sustainability years two and beyond than those who think 'oh well, the cap is magically increasing once in a generation-lets use that opportunity on Tobias Harris!' Please...

 

Payton, Oladipo, Hezonja, Gordon will all need to be addressed within two years of the cap increase in '17. Assuming those are four of our top 7 is where that came from, of course, Nik will need a new contract by then too. Fournier perhaps? Again, our yet to be determined star FA acquisition will play into the equation well before then as well.

 

For the love of all that is holy, stop using San Antonio as a litmus for what we are trying to do! It is not the same animal. Our teams are not built the same, our teams do not have the same pull, our teams do not have the same respect, our teams will not behave the same. If we were able to get players of the David West caliber for the vet minimum then I would have zero issue with signing Tobias Harris to be one of the top 15-20 salaries in the whole league...though the David West's would likely have an issue with that.

 

The cap is going to continue increase in 2+ years. That's what your not grasping. Henny resigned Harris in perfect harmony to what the cap will do in the next 4 years while giving us ample room to resign those who will be our core.

 

Your last paragraph is your blinded frustration from seeing things rationally. SA built their team the same way, through the draft. Manu, Parker, TD, Leonard, all drafted.

[HeHateMe 697]

The cap is going to continue increase in 2+ years. That's what your not grasping. Henny resigned Harris in perfect harmony to what the cap will do in the next 4 years while giving us ample room to resign those who will be our core.

 

I wouldn't say "perfect harmony". Perfect harmony would be Vuchs' contract. I like the way Harris's numbers are divided up each year, but regardless it was still an overpay. Which for the record, I'm okay with. But let's not all be so biased to act like we got a great deal with Harris. Harris won that signing, not Rob. Rob ponied up what he had to in order to keep Harris, if he was comfortable going that high he could have done so last summer. He did what he had to.

 

*ambush ensues*