Jacque Vaughn Thread

[barnettej 263]

Thats not how basketball works. The amount of TO's you would have with a young team with no chemistry would be astounding in a fast break offense. The players would struggle and stop buying into the coach and the scheme.

 

Watch the offense now. The passes are crisp because the players know each other and they know where they will be on the floor. JV HAS wanted to run, he said it in the summer. It just doesn't happen overnight, no matter what you guys think.

 

Where do you get this stuff......

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

Where do you get this stuff......

 

Is there something unclear about what he said?

[Catman 380]

Where do you get this stuff......

 

You mean actual basic basketball knowledge or common sense?

[TreyMachine 399]

Thats not how basketball works. The amount of TO's you would have with a young team with no chemistry would be astounding in a fast break offense. The players would struggle and stop buying into the coach and the scheme.

 

Watch the offense now. The passes are crisp because the players know each other and they know where they will be on the floor. JV HAS wanted to run, he said it in the summer. It just doesn't happen overnight, no matter what you guys think.

 

Why didn't we hear this before?

 

I fully buy into the idea that getting to know each other's playing style takes time, but we've all seen Payton have the capabilities to do this for 10-15 games now. Why NOW? Why this game in the MIDDLE of the game as opposed to the beginning of the game? Perhaps it was in his gameplan for later on in the season (as he said in the offseason) and EP picked up on this much quicker than anticipated, but then it makes JV look like he's not willing to push his players to do what they are actually capable of.

 

To the person saying that JV was telling them to keep pushing the ball - of course he did! It was WORKING. JV might be a bit dense, but I don't think he would stand ignorantly against what was clearly working on the court. My point being: he only told them to start running because it was working, not because it was in his game plan.

 

I'm really not a Vaughn-hater. I'm just looking at what was being said vs. what was not being said about the change in offense, along with when and how the change occurred. All lines point towards Payton being the instigator of the change and Vaughn jumping on the train - not the other way around.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Why didn't we hear this before?

 

I fully buy into the idea that getting to know each other's playing style takes time, but we've all seen Payton have the capabilities to do this for 10-15 games now. Why NOW? Why this game in the MIDDLE of the game as opposed to the beginning of the game? Perhaps it was in his gameplan for later on in the season (as he said in the offseason) and EP picked up on this much quicker than anticipated, but then it makes JV look like he's not willing to push his players to do what they are actually capable of.

 

To the person saying that JV was telling them to keep pushing the ball - of course he did! It was WORKING. JV might be a bit dense, but I don't think he would stand ignorantly against what was clearly working on the court. My point being: he only told them to start running because it was working, not because it was in his game plan.

 

I'm really not a Vaughn-hater. I'm just looking at what was being said vs. what was not being said about the change in offense, along with when and how the change occurred. All lines point towards Payton being the instigator of the change and Vaughn jumping on the train - not the other way around.

 

Like I said, I think you're reading too much into things. I was under the impression that they credit Payton's play for the change, not some PAYTON led mutiny.

[TreyMachine 399]

Like I said, I think you're reading too much into things. I was under the impression that they credit Payton's play for the change, not some PAYTON led mutiny.

 

I didn't say it was a Payton-led mutiny. haha. I said that Payton decided to press the tempo on offense and defense, something that I'm sure is appreciated if called for within JV's offense. I only see him telling guys to "slow down" if the result is turnovers or missed baskets that lead to fast-breaks the other way.

 

They're not mutinying. I'm mainly arguing that the credit is due to Payton (as you said), and not JV's in-game coaching change un-prompted by the play or desire of his players.

 

There is only one way the players mutiny at this point: the fast-break starts to result in turnovers, which leads to losses, which results in JV slowing the tempo down once more, even if the players think it would be best to run the fast break still. With how our last two games have gone, I do not see this happening.

[magicblue 315]

Thats not how basketball works. The amount of TO's you would have with a young team with no chemistry would be astounding in a fast break offense. The players would struggle and stop buying into the coach and the scheme.

 

Watch the offense now. The passes are crisp because the players know each other and they know where they will be on the floor. JV HAS wanted to run, he said it in the summer. It just doesn't happen overnight, no matter what you guys think.

 

But we did struggle and we did turn the ball over a ton even when we weren't running and guess what, we also lost a ton. I just think it's convenient that JV is now taking credit and saying this was his master plan all along now that the players took the initiative upon themselves.

 

Obviously there's no way to know for sure, but we sure did seem lost prior to that Portland game and Frye even mentioned it was basically the team that said, "**** this, we're running". If I had once heard JV say we need to run more or push the pace I might believe him, but I never heard any of that after any of our consecutive losses. Of course he can say I was just waiting for Payton to impose his will if he wants, I just don't happen to believe him.

[Catalina Maria 64]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-pm-dont-sleep-on-magics-elfrid-payton/

 

Elfrid has been given credit for the recent change of philosophy, not JV.

[HeHateMe 697]

Funny arguing over whose most responsible for our 2-2 resurgence :dustball:

[magicblue 315]

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-pm-dont-sleep-on-magics-elfrid-payton/

 

Elfrid has been given credit for the recent change of philosophy, not JV.

 

Vaughn's name isn't even mentioned in the article. I think that about says it all.

[magicblue 315]

Funny arguing over whose most responsible for our 2-2 resurgence :dustball:/>

 

You know it's more than just the record against 4 of the best teams in the league. The style of play is like day and night.

[Catalina Maria 64]

You know it's more than just the record against 4 of the best teams in the league. The style of play is like day and night.

 

Amen!