Trade Details to stop the negativity

[BigPoppaV 9]

Unless LeBron gets tired of Miami (which he might if Wade's body continues to break down) I don't like 2014 much for free agents. Most of the other big names are really old (Dirk, Kobe, Wade, Pierce) and others I don't think are all that great (Rudy Gay). 2015 is more interesting with Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge.

 

 

 

You might be able to make a deal for kevin love now by using some expiring contracts. Love is not a happy camper and has made that known.

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

You might be able to make a deal for kevin love now by using some expiring contracts. Love is not a happy camper and has made that known.

 

I'm not sure about that, his main problem was that he said he wanted to be in the playoffs which I think the Wolves have a decent chance at if Rubio stays healthy, plus Love's contract goes on for 3 more years which is ample time for the organization to improve, he has little leverage at the moment.

[Miller4Prez66 545]

Who gives a ***** what Chad Ford says. Just more ESPN BS about how we should've done this or that with no real knowledge of what went on behind the scenes and why the Magic want this deal for the future.

[Emory889 353]

Chad Ford's Updated Off-Season Team Grade for the Magic:

 

 

 

The negativity is just being realistic.

 

Sadly.....

 

We passed on a better offer from the Nets? That is being realistic? I beg to differ.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

Chad Ford's Updated Off-Season Team Grade for the Magic:

 

 

 

The negativity is just being realistic.

 

Sadly.....

 

Nets trade (no matter what anyone thinks it was made up of) was just awful, letting Ryan go was the right move as well. Think about that Nets trade, Ford is blasting the picks we received for being lottery protected well, what the hell were the Nets picks going to be with Dwight and Deron? How does that make any sense? Signing Jameer for 2 yrs does what to us? There is still a salary floor and we are going to be rebuilding for at least as long as his deal. The only thing that Ford mentions that could have some validity is that the Houston deal was better however, do we really know what that deal was? After Dwights camp sabatoged any of Houstons efforts I am more inclined to believe the reports that their offer was much less than what was initially reported.

 

This is just another example of ESPN crapping on something because big names are not involved.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

The picks we got, while not the Toronto pick, are better picks than the Jersey ones would have been plain and simple.

 

Factor in our own lotto, which WILL be lotto unless we become a dominate force with Hedo, and we're good to go.

 

Idiots. All of them.

[Live or Die Magic 383]

With a few exceptions, the national media members (and most especially, anyone associated with ESPN) will never be able to provide good, specific insight on any one team because they are not around the team enough and do not have established relationships with the organization.

[bhnole 153]

I wanted no part of any deal involving Brook Lopez....bad contract, huge injury risk and soft as charmin in the paint.

[Skywise316 211]

Personally, I tink it's hilarious that the Magic are getting slammed for this trade when the Nuggets have been praised from Denver to the pearly white gates for the deal they pulled off.

 

Nuggets deal:

Carmelo, Billups, Williams, Carter and Balkman

for

Chandler, Felton, Gallinari, Mozgov, (1) first round pick, (2) 2nd round picks, and 3million cash.

 

 

Magic deal:

Dwight, JRich, Duhon, Earl Clark

for

Aflalo, Harrington, Josh McRoberts, Christian Eyenga, Nicola Vucevic, Moe Harkless, (3) first round picks, (2) 2nd round picks, and a reported 17mil TPE

 

Comparison going out:

The Nuggets traded away (2) hall of fame players, and provided the Knicks with either cap relief in the form of Billups. Carter was a couple million worth of cap relief, and Balkman was a previous first round pick. The Magic traded away an all-world center, but also unburdened themselves of two Otis follies. The inclusion of Earl Clark is a bit frustrating since young players with upside that play on the cheap are seemingly what we need to rebuild, but you never know what was demanded of us to make things work, or if Earl's inclusion specifically garnered us more in a return package.

 

Comparison coming back:

The Nuggets received Chandler, a 7.4mil per season 13ppg guy, similar to what the Magic received in Aflalo. Felton who was underwhelming in a Nuggets jersey and unhappy about being underutilized alongside rookie Ty Lawson, was parlayed into Andre Miller & the #26pick in the very next draft. The Magic can similarly trade veteran Harrington away for compensation in the form of additional picks, or use his non-guaranteed, soon to expire contract as additional cap space. The Nuggets plucked overrated, injury risk Gallinari from the Knicks. Gallinari has missed roughly 50 games, 30 games and 20 games respectively in three of his four NBA seasons while averaging 15ppg and 5rpg. The Magic have added Moe Harkless, who hasn't stepped foot on an NBA court yet, but who was one of the most talked about players to improve his draft status during workouts. The Nuggets received Mozgov and the Magic received Vucevic - a push.

 

Out of what's remaining from the two deals, the Magic severely have the upperhand. The Nuggets got the expiring contract of Anthony Carter, we got the expiring contract of Josh McRoberts. The Nuggest received (3) picks, the Magic received (5) picks. The Nuggets received 3million cash, The Magic received a 17mil TPE. The cherry on top for the Magic is high flying dunk machine Eyenga.

 

IMO, the Magic deal is CLEARLY better than the Nuggets deal, leading me to ask, do the Magic ever get a fair shake with the media?

 

Just wanted to re-quote this again. Read the article first before I looked at the username that posted it. Smackdaddy!

 

New schoolers, this is how you get it done right here.

 

I'm excited about the rookies, more than anything, and hope they get tons of time to play. If we're gonna lose, at least get some experience out of the deal in the meantime. Throw the kids in the fire and see if they come out tempered or burnt. :shard: by the way, that's all I ever wanted out of J.J. Redick's first couple of years, Gortat, and anyone else we drafted or brought in that was young... Ryan Anderson was the exception for the Magic, not the rule.

 

That's one thing that Stan Van Gundy still had in common with Brian Hill... a stubborn unwillingness to play young guys.

 

Young.. guys.. make.. meh.. stakes! It happens, it is called growing pains, if you DO want to get better in the future, and have a team grow together, then you have to go through that stupid turnover out of bounds here, that dumb foul there, so they can LEARN..... and get BETTER. It all can't happen in practice, watching basketball since I was ten years old, I've sure as hell learned that. When's the last time we had ONE rookie to be excited about (Lee? Ryno as a second year player, but we didn't draft him).. let alone what, three?? Just really hope Vaughn is much different than our last two coaches in this way.

 

The trade itself was okay.. not great in a vacuum, but this was no vacuum. Dwight Howard and his agent hampered us, not to mention having a numbnut for an ex-GM. That makes it a pretty darn good trade, despite ESPN being a bunch of Brooklyn butt-suckers. Liken it to Obama having to clean up Bush Jr.'s mess, but don't want to get political here. Just an analogy. Henningan can't come in and literally build the Orlando Magic from scratch.. he had to fix the mess dropped in his lap from the job interview on. That mess was a lot bigger than just the Dwightmare. Our salary cap was a bigger one!

 

Michael Wilbon was actually fair to us on PTI, shockingly. That it may take even a few years to get any idea how we did on our side of the trade.

 

Or in short...

 

CHRIS DUHON IS GONE HALLEJUAH~! I'm happy we got that defacto Washington Wizard (bonehead) out of here. We have to start over, and starting over sucks. But.. well.. other than Turk, I think we will be proud of our team, and the circus is out of town. There really is value in not being embarrassed to be a Magic fan. Not Clippers-we-always-lose-games-over-decades embarrased, Wizards or Oakland Raider we-really-DO-need-bags-over-our-heads-because-our-players-have-double-digit I.Q.s embarrassed. :shard:

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,033]

I'm very excited for this new era.

 

Hope our frontcourt is

 

Harkless/ don't care who backs up

Nicholson/Baby

Vucevic/Kyle Otis

 

Hopefully we land a superstar swingman and a top center in the next few years

[VandyPettitte 1]

If the 2013 draft sucks and the FA class is weak then we'll obviously be bad enough to have a top pick in the 2014 draft

 

:happypuppy:

 

No money to sign any FA's above the MLE in 2013 and this team's bad enough that a first round pick (even #1 overall) won't propel the Magic out of the Draft Lottery... We're destined for a top pick in 2014 unless the team plays above its abilities. And only that.

[VandyPettitte 1]

Has it been mentioned that the new CBA ended the trade-and-extend (essentially de-valuing Dwight as a trade commodity?) Regardless...

 

Nuggets deal:

Carmelo, Billups, Williams, Carter and Balkman

for

Chandler, Felton, Gallinari, Mozgov, (1) first round pick, (2) 2nd round picks, and 3million cash.

To clarify, Balkman Williams & Carter were used to balance salaries. This trade may as well have been Carmelo and Billups to NY for et al.

 

Comparison going out:

The Nuggets traded away (2) hall of fame players, and provided the Knicks with either cap relief in the form of Billups. Carter was a couple million worth of cap relief, and Balkman was a previous first round pick. The Magic traded away an all-world center, but also unburdened themselves of two Otis follies. The inclusion of Earl Clark is a bit frustrating since young players with upside that play on the cheap are seemingly what we need to rebuild, but you never know what was demanded of us to make things work, or if Earl's inclusion specifically garnered us more in a return package.

How do Billups' HOF prospects apply here (without mentioning that Billups' HOF chances are uncertain)? They don't. If he was playing at a HOF-caliber level then the Knicks wouldn't have amnestied the 34-year old (at the time).

 

Earl Clark was included because his contract's expiring and he's likely to be nothing more than an overpaid role player for the rest of his career (and of course including Clark guaranteed the Magic more in return...).

 

Comparison coming back:

The Nuggets received Chandler, a 7.4mil per season 13ppg guy, similar to what the Magic received in Aflalo.

Chandler's contract was expiring and Afflalo's signed on for an extra 3 years including his P.O. So no, Chandler was not similar to Afflalo. He provided them flexibility; they just happened to end up resigning him.

 

Felton who was underwhelming in a Nuggets jersey and unhappy about being underutilized alongside rookie Ty Lawson, was parlayed into Andre Miller & the #26pick in the very next draft.

Felton was underutilized in a Nuggets jersey...? Now you're just talking out of your @$$... He averaged over 30 minutes per game in 21 games off the bench in Denver. As for "underwhelming", his FG% and 3P% went up and he still managed to average 11.5 pts 6.5 ast and 1.3 stls. Was he an overpaid backup? Yes. But the fact that he was traded for Andre Miller and a first rounder means that he had value going to and leaving Denver.

 

And "alongside" Lawson? No. Lawson got all of the starts and Felton came off the bench. He played behind Lawson.

 

The Magic can similarly trade veteran Harrington away for compensation in the form of additional picks, or use his non-guaranteed, soon to expire contract as additional cap space.

This makes him of similar value to Harrington trade-wise but, if the Magic can't trade Harrington, then his value is close to zero. You've provided a contingency and nothing more.

 

The Nuggets plucked overrated, injury risk Gallinari from the Knicks. Gallinari has missed roughly 50 games, 30 games and 20 games respectively in three of his four NBA seasons while averaging 15ppg and 5rpg. The Magic have added Moe Harkless, who hasn't stepped foot on an NBA court yet, but who was one of the most talked about players to improve his draft status during workouts. The Nuggets received Mozgov and the Magic received Vucevic - a push.

Gallinari was a proven commodity when traded unlike Harkless. While Harkless has a higher ceiling he can just as easily average 3 points per game over his career. In hindsight Gallinari can be considered an injured commodity but that doesn't mean that, at the time, Denver didn't get as much value trading for Gallo as the Magic did trading for Harkless now. Gallo's isn't a bust and his health can improve (see: Hill, Grant. McDyess, Antonio. Camby, Marcus. Etc etc). We can't use hindsight to compare two trades when hindsight can't yet be applied to one of them.

 

Not gonna argue Mozgov v Vucevic.

 

Out of what's remaining from the two deals, the Magic severely have the upperhand.

Ignoring your wordiness...

 

The Nuggets got the expiring contract of Anthony Carter, we got the expiring contract of Josh McRoberts. The Nuggest received (3) picks, the Magic received (5) picks. The Nuggets received 3million cash, The Magic received a 17mil TPE. The cherry on top for the Magic is high flying dunk machine Eyenga.

Eyenga played in seven games last year. Talk about overrating.

 

17 million dollar TPE? So the Magic can take on an overrated player with a fat contract. Fantastic! Cash and TPE are completely different; one is cash and the other is the ability to circumvent salary cap rules in order to take on more players' salary. Unless a team wants to package an expiring contract that they don't want to pay luxury tax for and hopefully get a draft pick or two out of it. However, it's likely that using the TPE will lead to luxury tax penalties and cost the Magic owners "cash" (not that it matters). Regardless, the TPE will likely go unused unless the Magic get lucky (which I hope they do).

 

Further, you can't just say "we got more draft picks!" and assume that means you're correct. Also, you forgot to mention that the Nuggets can swap first rounders with the Knicks in 2016:

 

Traded Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Anthony Carter, Renaldo Balkman, Shelden Williams, 2015 second round pick (?-?), Nuggets option to swap 2016 first round picks with Knicks (?-?) in a 3-team trade with Knicks, Timberwolves for Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Kosta Koufos, Timofey Mozgov, 2012 second round pick (from Knicks) (#38-Quincy Miller), 2013 second round pick (from Knicks) (?-?), 2014 first round pick (from Knicks) (?-?), Nuggets option to swap 2016 first round picks with Knicks (?-?), $3M cash on 2011-02-22

 

Traded Dwight Howard, Jason Richardson, Chris Duhon, Earl Clark in a 4-team trade with 76ers, Lakers, Nuggets for Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, Moe Harkless, Christian Eyenga, Josh McRoberts, Nikola Vucevic, 2013 second round pick (from Nuggets) (?-?), 2014 first round pick (from Nuggets, less favorable of Knicks, Nuggets picks) (?-?), 2015 first round pick (from 76ers, two years after 76ers convey first round pick to Heat from earlier trade, protected top 14 in 2015-16, top 11 in 2017, top 8 in 2018, thereafter 2018 and 2019 second round picks) (?-?), 2015 second round pick (from Lakers, protected top 40 in 2015, extinguished thereafter) (?-?), 2017 first round pick (from Lakers, protected top 5 in 2017, else 2017 and 2018 second round picks) (?-?) on 2012-08-10

 

 

One of those 5 Magic picks is the "less favorable of the Knicks/Nuggets picks from the Carmelo trade". Other than that, the "picks" the Magic received are a 2013 Nuggets second round pick, a protected 2015 76ers pick that can turn into two second round picks if the 76ers are bad enough, a 2015 Lakers second-round pick (top 40 protection), and a 2017 Lakers first round pick.

 

IMO, the Magic deal is CLEARLY better than the Nuggets deal, leading me to ask, do the Magic ever get a fair shake with the media?

Clearly? That's a long-shot. You've made some arguments that lead to a discussion about who benefited more from their respective trades, but nothing more.