A Special 10k Post, Tuesday Edition of Case Of The Mondays: Who is DoM hating now?

[ucfknights22 5]

Of all the days for me to come read the board, I pick a day where there's a thread that's actually entertaining. Well done DOM.

[FloridianaJones 8]

Saying Ellis sucks is a rash interpretation of statistics only. Making the assumption that anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't 'watch' is ironic because I'm pretty sure I watched a play by Ellis last week in which he came over and made a pretty high level weak-side block on Blake Griffin. That was a defensive play that NO ONE in our back court would have anticipated and executed. Just saying...

 

Basketball doesn't correlate to 'Moneyball' and statistics aren't God in this sport. There is a lot more to interpret—chemistry, coaching, system.

 

Do I look at Ellis' stats and think they jump off the page, no. There are a few things we could agree on—one, he does take a large volume of attempts and to say he could cut back on his number of shots and still be efficient is a gamble, however it's just that, a gamble—not a 'sure thing' as you have stated.

 

Additionally, those stats don't reflect how his game might change under a defensive minded coach like Stan and with a VERY dominant big man like Dwight. That's the beauty of this sport—how team oriented it is.

 

To say he 'sucks' is honestly a hasty, purely statistical based judgement and I completely disagree. With the flashes (don't you just LOVE that word...?!!!) of elite talent he shows, I think it's enough to say that if this guy got in a winning environment, with good defensive minded coaching and superstar teammates—and still being 26—his stats could improve and PER move up in the mid-to-lower twenties.

 

Although, in light of the Bucks trade, this is now irrelevant. I'll be back in another 2 years to comment on your 15,000 post.

 

FJ - (from the grime of LA) [also if you haven't noticed I'm a big fan of the 'em dash', though I am way too cavalier to actually use it properly.]

[Shine88 80]

People were quick to use that same "he doesn't help his team win" argument with Zach Randolph before he got with the Grizzles. I mean he sure proved a lot of people wrong last year with his performance in the postseason. Jamal Crawford was another guy who wore that tag until he got with the Hawks. So I'm not buying that argument with Monta Ellis. Ellis actually played a big role for the Warriors the year they upsetted the Mavs in the first round. I believe he averaged about 18 ppg playing along side BD and J-Rich. I just feel the Warriors' management have failed to get the right pieces in place to allow them to take that next step.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

People were quick to use that same "he doesn't help his team win" argument with Zach Randolph before he got with the Grizzles. I mean he sure proved a lot of people wrong last year with his performance in the postseason.

 

The knock on Randolph was always that he was talented, but tended to take on the personality of his teammates, and he had played most of his career with horrible influences. That was the knock since his first few years in Portland, where he was a stud young player. People may have forgotten that in the 8 years that followed, but that doesn't change what the narrative was just because it'd be convenient for you if it did.

 

Jamal Crawford was another guy who wore that tag until he got with the Hawks.

 

.....

 

Jamal Crawford was considered a volume shooting tweener guard who could shoot you into a game just as easily as shooting you out of one. He was put on the bench, had his number of shots limited, and the setup worked when he was put on a team that needed a volume shooting tweener guard.

 

That's not a surprise: it's the exact expected outcome.

 

So I'm not buying that argument with Monta Ellis. Ellis actually played a big role for the Warriors the year they upsetted the Mavs in the first round.

 

No, he didn't.

 

I believe he averaged about 18 ppg playing along side BD and J-Rich.

He averaged 8ppg on 39% shooting during the playoffs that year.

 

I just feel the Warriors' management have failed to get the right pieces in place to allow them to take that next step.

 

Like a replacement for Ellis?

 

Making a team with Ellis as your offensive focal point that is still a contender is possible, but it's not worth the effort. You'd basically just be recreating that Iverson Sixers team that went to the Finals. A big point guard that can guard the 2 and a whole lot of interior defense.

 

Ho hum.

[Dime Dropper 1]

the only issue that is important to me is if Monta Ellis would have helped the Magic. the answer is yes b/c Dwight hand-picked him as a teammate and would have committed to the Magic for three more years if Ellis would have come via trade. now, that is just one less option for the Magic to pursue.

[RocBoyz 47]

Basketball doesn't correlate to 'Moneyball' and statistics aren't God in this sport. There is a lot more to interpret—chemistry, coaching, system.

 

AGREE - See: Dallas last year

 

Ellis has been an underrated scoring for awhile now and makes incredible shots, excited to see him in a new offense with Brandon Jennings.

 

Ellis is going to have to step up his defensive game or Scott Skiles will sit his ass - crazy coach

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

AGREE - See: Dallas last year

 

Ellis has been an underrated scoring for awhile now and makes incredible shots, excited to see him in a new offense with Brandon Jennings.

 

Ellis is going to have to step up his defensive game or Scott Skiles will sit his ass - crazy coach

 

That's hilarious, because Dallas is one of the strongest proponents of deep analytic statistics being used to help identify the players they want to target. Try not talking out of your ass if you want to really make a point and google APBRmetrics while you're at it.

[kramerthesecond 15]

Saying Ellis sucks is a rash interpretation of statistics only. Making the assumption that anyone who thinks otherwise clearly doesn't 'watch' is ironic because I'm pretty sure I watched a play by Ellis last week in which he came over and made a pretty high level weak-side block on Blake Griffin. That was a defensive play that NO ONE in our back court would have anticipated and executed. Just saying...

 

one play doesn't matter more than an overwhelming amount of statistical evidence that he is TERRIBLE on that end, not too mention he fails the "eye" test consistently. it's an incredibly ignorant point to bring up, just saying...jameer has blocked big men before in his career too but i doubt you've been watching long enough to know it

 

Basketball doesn't correlate to 'Moneyball' and statistics aren't God in this sport. There is a lot more to interpret—chemistry, coaching, system.

 

again...the ONLY reason you think he is a quality professional athlete is because he puts up a lot of points per game and i know this, because if you watched him a lot you'd know he just isn't that good. you're taking a statistic that, anyone who has watched basketball for more than a season, knows is essentially meaningless. he is inefficient and his team plays better when he is on the bench despite the large investment of the salary cap devoted to him. one more time, you think he's good because of a statistic that means nothing and now you're claiming that the more important and telling statistics that you obviously don't understand are not important. that is what ignorant people do...

 

Do I look at Ellis' stats and think they jump off the page, no. There are a few things we could agree on—one, he does take a large volume of attempts and to say he could cut back on his number of shots and still be efficient is a gamble, however it's just that, a gamble—not a 'sure thing' as you have stated.

 

precedence pl0x. name a few guys, who statistically were far below average scorers (and yes, the numbers he puts up are FAR below the league averages) who took too many shots and changed during their prime. go ahead, name some guys who have gone from shooting teams out of the playoff contention to winning titles. i'm waiting. by your logic, give me a max deal yo, it's a risk, however it's just that, a gamble. I MEAN LOOK AT LIN! THAT COULD BE ME!

 

Additionally, those stats don't reflect how his game might change under a defensive minded coach like Stan and with a VERY dominant big man like Dwight. That's the beauty of this sport—how team oriented it is.

 

again, precedent. which player under van gundy has gone from as terrible as monta ellis to a quality option. there hasn't been one, so don't try naming off random guys on our roster, just saving you the trouble of seeming even more ignorant.

 

To say he 'sucks' is honestly a hasty, purely statistical based judgement and I completely disagree. With the flashes (don't you just LOVE that word...?!!!) of elite talent he shows, I think it's enough to say that if this guy got in a winning environment, with good defensive minded coaching and superstar teammates—and still being 26—his stats could improve and PER move up in the mid-to-lower twenties.

 

Ahh you don't understand this sport!!! "flashes?" of elite talent? are you joking? he just isn't that good but sometimes is hot, like all chuckers at the nba level. give me 18 contested jumpshots a game at this level and even i'll hit some. his terrible team is better when he is on the bench and that's incredibly telling. you having seen a handful of highlights and going off that is incredibly ignorant. there is more to the game than scoring points. all monta can do is score points and he is really bad at that relative to an average nba athlete. translation? he's literally a below average nba player getting paid like a top 30 talent. because of people like you who can only understand the "points scored" part of the box score.

 

Although, in light of the Bucks trade, this is now irrelevant. I'll be back in another 2 years to comment on your 15,000 post.

 

FJ - (from the grime of LA) [also if you haven't noticed I'm a big fan of the 'em dash', though I am way too cavalier to actually use it properly.]

[kramerthesecond 15]

AGREE - See: Dallas last year

 

Ellis has been an underrated scoring for awhile now and makes incredible shots, excited to see him in a new offense with Brandon Jennings.

 

Ellis is going to have to step up his defensive game or Scott Skiles will sit his ass - crazy coach

 

 

lol, people not understanding basketball talking bout monta ellis. you consider an "incredible shot" to be a difficult one to make. that is absurdly retarded ignorant. the "incredible shot" is the one that good scorers can get consistently and make consistently, you know, like a lay up or ideally a dunk. taking a shot that is hard to make and making it is still playing bad offense unless you can, somehow, do it an efficient rate which he flat out doesn't. you're impressed because he is constantly taking tough shots and that makes you a moron. good offense is getting good looks that hit a high percentage of the time. the goal of this sport on offense is to take efficient shots that you hit more often than the inefficient shots the defense is trying to force you to take. monta ellis shoots far below the league average statistically, his team averages, and especially our team averages. translation? he sucks and you suck for not understanding the purpose of an nba offense.

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Monta was pretty efficient back in 08 when Golden State almost won 50 games. Clearly not good enough to do it on his own as showcased the last few years but if a team was set up the right way I don't see how why he can't be a useful piece.

[kramerthesecond 15]

the only issue that is important to me is if Monta Ellis would have helped the Magic. the answer is yes b/c Dwight hand-picked him as a teammate and would have committed to the Magic for three more years if Ellis would have come via trade. now, that is just one less option for the Magic to pursue.

 

lolwut? speculation to the max. why didn't dwight resign when we got big baby? he was on that same list...

[BMP 424]

AGREE - See: Dallas last year

 

Ellis has been an underrated scoring for awhile now and makes incredible shots, excited to see him in a new offense with Brandon Jennings.

 

Ellis is going to have to step up his defensive game or Scott Skiles will sit his ass - crazy coach

 

Someone is excited to see some of the most inefficient chuckers in the NBA playing together? Do you also like train wrecks and ruined marriages?