Religion

[My 6th Rebuild 6]

How about the biggest contradiction of all? God, as portrayed in the bible, is clearly bipolar.

 

And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth” Exodus 34:6

 

And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten [many] of the people with a great slaughter. 1 Samuel 6:19

 

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love. The LORD is good to all; he has compassion on all he has made. Psalms 148:8-9

 

This story is a personal favorite of mine. For those that are familiar with the story, I'll give you the cliff notes. King David sees Bathsheba, the wife of one of his officers, and lusts after her. In order to get rid of Uriah (her husband) David orders his general to place Uriah in a place in the battle where he wouldn't survive. It worked, David then married Bathsheba and got her pregnant. God, go figure, does not approve.

 

'Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan replied, "The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die." 2 Samuel 12:13-14

 

:"And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick...And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died." 2 Samuel 12: 15, 18

 

It gets better. The next son that Bathsheba gives David is Soloman, the next king of Israel. That seems fair. Murder, lust, adultery and the only one that really pays the price is the infant. Of course, this isn't the first time that God killed kids to prove a point. Ask the whole country of Egypt about that.

 

God is all knowing?

 

in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. 1 John 3:20

 

I never understood why Christians don't see the obvious evil in the Abraham and Issac story. I can't even imagine the amount of devotion it took for Abraham to agree to murder his own son. I really can't understand why he would be devoted to a God that had the jealousy issues of a 5 year old. Here is the interesting part though. This is the words that the angel used to tell Abraham he didn't have to kill his own son:

 

"Do not lay a hand on the boy," he said. "Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son." Genesis 22:12

 

So the question has to be asked: Did God know what Abraham was going to choose? If he didn't know, then God doesn't know everything and the scripture in John is wrong. If God did know, and he still made Abraham go through that horrific ordeal, then he is a ***** of epic proportions. Along those same lines, the story of Job is also applicable. You know, the story where God allowed Satan to destroy the life of Job the man who "there is no one on earth like him; blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." basically because Satan dared him to. Job 1:6-12 Satan proceeds to destroy all of Job's possessions, kills his wives and all of his children. If that wasn't enough, Satan also proceeds to convince God to allow him to afflict with painful boils head to toe. Job 2:3-7 The rest of the book consists of Job defending God to his 3 friends. Finally God answered Job and gave him an explanation that was the equivelant of "I'm God, I will do what I want." Then Job REPENTED TO GOD.

 

I find this story incredibly hard to stomach. God already knows how Job would react to Satan's trials, right? So what is the point of the whole charade? The end of Job is also surreal. It talks about how God then blessed Job with double his possessions and gave him more kids, because that makes up for the ones that God killed.

 

Truthfully, I don't believe there is a God. However, if there is one, and the bible is a accurate representation of his character, then I don't want anything to do with him. He is a tyrant that has no equal. A entity that is responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent lives. Why would an all knowing all powerful God never intervene to prevent atrocities? If I knew that planes would crash in the World Trade center and I had the power to prevent it, what would it say about me if I decided to do nothing? Wouldn't that make me twice as evil as the people that actually hijacked the planes? If God expects me to worship him, then I don't think I'm asking to much to expect God to be BETTER than me. I'm not worshipping a entity that is prone to the same petty jealousies and anger that the human race is guilty of.

 

 

I think you take the stories too literally and not see the symblic meaning behind them. God was angry with David because he had Uriah set up to be killed. God did not like the fact David did this to steal Uriah's wife. Instead of punishing David, who is unconditionally devoted to God, he took his first born with Bathsheba. David suffered for 7 days while the child was sick. On that 7th day the child dies and David mourns his son in solitude for 7 days. Normally a person would hate the person that killed their son, especially if they can't do anything about it. Instead of hating God for taking his son, David praised the lord and loved the lord, singing and dancing praise to him. God then forgave David and then had Solomon with Bathsheba. David is a sinner, like all of us, but God shows mercy to David because of David's devotion to God. God also does not punish Solomon after Solomon begins to worship false idols out of respect for David, but punishes his decendants. The story shows how even a sinner such as David can be regarded so highly in God's eyes.

 

This is all Old Testament stuff which is why Jesus came. Jesus came to save us and he died for our sins. He could have easily become a king of the world, taken over the Roman empire and ruled for an eternity. What other person in history can you name that was poor that has had such a long lasting effect on this world for over 2000 years. He did this all in 4 years!!

 

Ask God the questions that you have in your mind. Ask God why and he will answer you.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

I do believe that theres more extremists in the Muslim religion then any right now.

 

Based on what exactly?

[VCplusD12 91]

This thread is gettin too serious.

[GhostAnime 50]

I want to try to be as respectful as possible when I say this.

 

First of all, I'm an Atheist (weak version).

 

Second, my main reason for posting this is towards the people who are trying to give advice for those who don't believe by saying things like "trust in God," "have faith," or even "Ask God he will answer you."

 

One thing you folks have to understand is that this will never work for skeptics. I'm not trying to be offensive, but that's just the way it is.

 

God will never speak to me. He will never show me any signs. He would only exist to me as much as I pretend to think he exists. I assume this works all the same for other non-believers. It would be akin to telling us "Ask the milk jug and he will answer you."

 

Not to mention that your god isn't the only one being advertised. How do you think we feel when we see thousands of other religions saying the same things?

 

The more you attempt to convert us, the farther away we tend to drift organized religion (personal theism is a different story, though).

[Emory889 353]

I think you take the stories too literally and not see the symblic meaning behind them. God was angry with David because he had Uriah set up to be killed. God did not like the fact David did this to steal Uriah's wife. Instead of punishing David, who is unconditionally devoted to God, he took his first born with Bathsheba. David suffered for 7 days while the child was sick. On that 7th day the child dies and David mourns his son in solitude for 7 days. Normally a person would hate the person that killed their son, especially if they can't do anything about it. Instead of hating God for taking his son, David praised the lord and loved the lord, singing and dancing praise to him. God then forgave David and then had Solomon with Bathsheba. David is a sinner, like all of us, but God shows mercy to David because of David's devotion to God. God also does not punish Solomon after Solomon begins to worship false idols out of respect for David, but punishes his decendants. The story shows how even a sinner such as David can be regarded so highly in God's eyes.

 

This is all Old Testament stuff which is why Jesus came. Jesus came to save us and he died for our sins. He could have easily become a king of the world, taken over the Roman empire and ruled for an eternity. What other person in history can you name that was poor that has had such a long lasting effect on this world for over 2000 years. He did this all in 4 years!!

 

Ask God the questions that you have in your mind. Ask God why and he will answer you.

 

They are historical stories from the bible. It wasn't anything that I took out of context. It came out of the bible in black and white, word for word. I was raised Christian and I know the first rule of Christianity is that the bible is supposed to be taken literally and that it's never wrong. I spent my first 18 years listening to sermons that pounded that theme home.

 

So let me throw out this scenario in response to your explanation of the David story. Lets say you killed somebody and the judge decided that instead of making you pay personally for your crime, he was going to have your 2 year old child executed. Would that be acceptable? That's basically what you are saying. David was a murderer (not just with Uriah either) and an adulterer. Both were capital offenses in that society.

 

The ironic part is that out of the 3 examples I gave, the one that was truly deserving of punishment got off incredibly lightly. Abraham and Job, two people who according to the bible were some of the most righteous people to ever live, were maliciously mistreated by the very entity that they spent their lives serving.

 

As for the New Testament, it's harder to compare it to to Old Testament because only the first 5 books have any historical information in them and the rest are letters written by various authors. Of course, 4 of the books, telling the same stories, manage to contradict each other over and over which casts a lot of doubt on their accuracy. None of that matters though. The god of the Old Testament is the same god as the New Testament. He has to be. He is a perfect being. A perfect being doesn't change because it makes no sense to change perfection. Therefore, Jesus' coming has no impact on the conversation. I'm not questioning the actions of the humans in the story which Jesus came to save. I'm questioning the actions of a very angry and violent god.

 

I won't question that Jesus was a great and influential man. He clearly was. I have serious reservations that one man could conquer the Roman army but that obviously depends on whether or not you think he is divine. As for you question, Mohammed, Leonardo da Vinci, Lincoln, and even Hitler were from humble beginnings that had long lasting effects on society...to name a few. Jesus coming from meager beginnings to found the biggest religion on the planet is impressive but it doesn't prove his divinity.

 

To backtrack to David, I didn't even mention the best David story in my previous post. The story is in 1 Chronicles chapter 21. David decided he wanted a census of his army so he sent out his general to do it. Now, I don't know what is so evil about the census back then (I bet Osprey and Kitno could explain it to me...lol) but it clearly didn't sit well his general. So something must have been shady about the process. Anyways, after David gets the results he realizes that he has made a mistake and repents to god. A prophet tells David that he can choose what punishment he wants to receive: 3 years of famine, 3 months of being overrun by enemy armies, or 3 days of plague. David chooses the plague and god kills 70,000 people. 70,000 people dead...because of a census. Just atrocious.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Instead of asking other people questions about God, I recommend you all ask God your questions. God will answer you. It has happened to me many times.

 

Seriously, if you ask God and you accept God as not only your God but as your father, just like a good father would do anything for their child so will god for you as we are all Gods children. God will answer your prayers.As his child if you are disobedient, god will punish you. Always remember, God loves you know matter what and he will always forgive you for any wrong you do (except for sins against the holy spirit) as long as you pray for forgiveness from your heart. If you do not accept God into your heart then he will not pay as much attention to you as he would with someone that has a father/son relationship with him. Who is Dwight going to go out of his way to give tickets to, a stranger or a friend? Same for God. Your not going to have a relationship with God overnight. As you put in effort, you will see that he will start to see you, speak to you, comfort you, love you, and guide you though real tough times.

 

2010 has been a real tough year for me personally and if it wasn't for the comforting feeling of my relationship with God, I'm not sure how I would have gotten through this so far. 2010 is not over.

 

For those of you that are "not religious", give God a shot and I GUARANTEE YOU your lives will change.

 

 

Well, no higher being took away my dad's cancer despite having the complete opposite lifestyle than someone who usually gets cancer.

 

But i went to the laundromat the other day and forgot dryer sheets. Then some guy thought my dryer was his and put a dryer sheet in my dryer. So I guess I can't say he never got me anything.

 

 

In all honesty I just dont need the extra comfort that religion provides. I dont need an afterlife. I can accept a finite existence. I don't even want to be buried. There doesn't need to be a larger picture for me.

 

My parents need a larger picture right now, but not me.

 

Life is the ultimate video game/sport/whatever metaphor you really want to use there. I'm content with competing with others, cultivating my own happiness, making my friends happy, and enjoying life's experiences. I feel fortunate for my existence, especially one with the amount of opportunities set before me. I was born healthy in a good family that is part of a time/country where pretty much any freedom or choice i wish to make is possible. If you live life the way it should be lived and make sure you treat others with the respect and dignity they deserve then thats all that really matters. Why bother attaching devotion to a metaphysical being that may or may not exist to something that you can enjoy without it?

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Based on what exactly?

 

fox news

[sharp/7/shooter 23]

Well, no higher being took away my dad's cancer despite having the complete opposite lifestyle than someone who usually gets cancer.

 

But i went to the laundromat the other day and forgot dryer sheets. Then some guy thought my dryer was his and put a dryer sheet in my dryer. So I guess I can't say he never got me anything.

 

 

In all honesty I just dont need the extra comfort that religion provides. I dont need an afterlife. I can accept a finite existence. I don't even want to be buried. There doesn't need to be a larger picture for me.

 

My parents need a larger picture right now, but not me.

 

Life is the ultimate video game/sport/whatever metaphor you really want to use there. I'm content with competing with others, cultivating my own happiness, making my friends happy, and enjoying life's experiences. I feel fortunate for my existence, especially one with the amount of opportunities set before me. I was born healthy in a good family that is part of a time/country where pretty much any freedom or choice i wish to make is possible. If you live life the way it should be lived and make sure you treat others with the respect and dignity they deserve then thats all that really matters. Why bother attaching devotion to a metaphysical being that may or may not exist to something that you can enjoy without it?

 

Wow, interesting perspective on life. I find that as people grow older, they tend to want to latch onto something that will give them hope. An 'afterlife' for some people IS that hope, something worth perusing to the end.

 

Most people aren't as fortunate as Lewis4T.W ., and seek some form of guidance through their life, affirming an existence of a higher authority. Maybe they have found their answer, maybe they haven't...for me, I'm still looking for a stable, unconditional truth. One can have faith, but for me, it must not be blind faith...it must be an educated belief.

 

---

 

btw, I like this thread, it's like my philosophy class all over again B)

[Optimist Prime 197]

Wow, interesting perspective on life. I find that as people grow older, they tend to want to latch onto something that will give them hope. An 'afterlife' for some people IS that hope, something worth perusing to the end.

 

Most people aren't as fortunate as Lewis4T.W ., and seek some form of guidance through their life, affirming an existence of a higher authority. Maybe they have found their answer, maybe they haven't...for me, I'm still looking for a stable, unconditional truth. One can have faith, but for me, it must not be blind faith...it must be an educated belief.

 

---

 

btw, I like this thread, it's like my philosophy class all over again B)

 

 

i think you might like this... its a talk entitled "a thinking persons quest for meaning"

 

http://www.veritas.org/Campus/Recordings.aspx?cid=37

 

also, for the rest of yous guys. heres the q and a archive for a theological philosopher, william lane craig: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/PageServer?pagename=q_and_a_archive

[~O~ 565]

i think you might like this... its a talk entitled "a thinking persons quest for meaning"

 

http://www.veritas.o...ngs.aspx?cid=37

 

also, for the rest of yous guys. heres the q and a archive for a theological philosopher, william lane craig: http://www.reasonabl...q_and_a_archive

 

Impostor.

[Optimist Prime 197]

Impostor.

 

haha you actually replied to my first post on here in the magic forum and i was like "...snap."

 

if its any reconciliation, ive been using this sn for about two or three years, though.

[~O~ 565]

haha you actually replied to my first post on here in the magic forum and i was like "...snap."

 

if its any reconciliation, ive been using this sn for about two or three years, though.

 

I've been using it for four and almost five. :svgsad:

 

Your still my evil twin brother till then.