Otis' Big Mistake '09

[SmackDaddy 30]

There are numerous issues here being overlooked or ignored by the crowd that is content with the Lue deal...and I say "content" because nobody is happy about it, merely content.

 

1) The backup PG position was going to be a question mark the moment Otis let both Arroyo & Dooling go. This problem was not addressed at any point during the season until Otis' hand was forced. I'll take proactive preparation any day over reactive haste (and shouldn't we expect that from our GM?)

 

2) Otis' refusal to sign either of those two players to a contract equal in size to what we paid Wilkes & AJ eventually wreaks of poor business sense. Add to it the Lue contract, and we are now paying all three of our backup PGs more than 6million dollars. Seems silly now to say that Dooling or Arroyo were too expensive during the offseason, doesn't it?

 

3) Saying that Lue's expiring contract was the best possible deal bcause he doesn't hurt our salary cap status next year is extremely short-sighted. A player salary that figures to be 3.5% of our cap, and less than .005% of the organization's operating expense, is far from being a savvy business move. Plain & simple, it was the least of what could be expected, and will not go very far at all in helping management keep costs in line.

 

4) Similarly, saying that the acquisition of a player with a long-term deal would have placed salary cap constraints on the Magic, is even further short-sighted. Acquiring a player with a deal that expires next year, allows the Magic to either trade that player before the Luxury Tax trigger date to avoid the LT, or potentially package that player with one of our many expiring contracts (Battie, AJ, Redick, Cook). So let's say for the sake of arguement that we traded Cook (which is another apsect of this discussion being ignored - the dismissal of Cook and his salary) and Bogans for Watson, we would have 18 million in expiring deals to work with before the deadline.

 

5) This is a big one - With Otis' decision to act frugally at this monumental turning point for the organization, he may have saved the Magic a few million in salary dollars, but if the Magic don't adavance deep into the playoffs, he could have cost the organization millions of dollars in playoff revenue.

 

6) As Junkie keeps saying, there are no guarantees. To use Kramer's example of David Garrard, the first year results of a bold move to exile a worthy backup was a success. Now how about the following season where Garrard had one of the worst QB ratings in the NFL and the team followed up their 11-5 season with a 5-11 season?

 

7) As Magic fans we obviously feel that we are still the best team in our division, but there are two teams behind us in the standings that have a very good chance of overcoming us in the standings to win the SouthEast division. Atlanta always plays tough, and Miami still has Marion's expiring deal to make a major roster move - couple that with their weaker schedule strength the remainder of the season, and we'll be lucky to hold off one team, much less both.

 

Overall, the move to bring Lue on board answers very few questions while opening up numerous questions pertaining to Otis' commitment to putting the best possible unit on the floor this year when we had built up enough momentum to finally be classified with LA, BOS and CLE as the best in the league.

[ball junkie 277]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

There are numerous issues here being overlooked or ignored by the crowd that is content with the Lue deal...and I say "content" because nobody is happy about it, merely content.

 

1) The backup PG position was going to be a question mark the moment Otis let both Arroyo & Dooling go. This problem was not addressed at any point during the season until Otis' hand was forced. I'll take proactive preparation any day over reactive haste (and shouldn't we expect that from our GM?)

 

2) Otis' refusal to sign either of those two players to a contract equal in size to what we paid Wilkes & AJ eventually wreaks of poor business sense. Add to it the Lue contract, and we are now paying all three of our backup PGs more than 6million dollars. Seems silly now to say that Dooling or Arroyo were too expensive during the offseason, doesn't it?

 

3) Saying that Lue's expiring contract was the best possible deal bcause he doesn't hurt our salary cap status next year is extremely short-sighted. We will not be impacted by the Luxury Tax next year until the trigger date halfway through the season.

 

4) Similarly, saying that the acquisition of a player with a long-term deal would have placed salary cap constraints on the Magic, is even further short-sighted. Acquiring a player with a deal that expires next year, allows the Magic to either trade that player before the Luxury Tax trigger date to avoid the LT, or potentially package that player with one of our many expiring contracts (Battie, AJ, Redick, Cook). So let's say for the sake of arguement that we traded Cook (which is another apsect of this discussion being ignored - the dismissal of Cook and his salary) and Bogans for Watson, we would have 18 million in expiring deals to work with before the deadline.

 

5) This is a big one - With Otis' decision to act frugally at this monumental turning point for the organization, he may have saved the Magic a few million in salary dollars, but if the Magic don't adavance deep into the playoffs, he could have cost the organization millions of dollars in playoff revenue.

 

6) As Junkie keeps saying, there are no guarantees. To use Kramer's example of David Garrard, the first year results of a bold move to exile a worthy backup was a success. Now how about the following season where Garrard had one of the worst QB ratings in the NFL and the team followed up their 11-5 season with a 5-11 season?

 

7) As Magic fans we obviously feel that we are still the best team in our division, but there are two teams behind us in the standings that have a very good chance of overcoming us in the standings to win the SouthEast division. Atlanta always plays tough, and Miami still has Marion's expiring deal to make a major roster move - couple that with their weaker schedule strength the remainder of the season, and we'll be lucky to hold off one team, much less both.

 

Overall, the move to bring Lue on board answers very few questions while opening up numerous questions pertaining to Otis' commitment to putting the best possible unit on the floor this year when we had built up enough momentum to finally be classified with LA, BOS and CLE as the best in the league.

 

Been waiting on you Smack to bring the cap and business knowledge to this thread...

 

TOUCHE!!!

[Soul Bro 1,422]

[soul Bro. sipping his morning green tea and rereading Smack's very thoughtful post].

[Svanxx 30]

Let's remember, the Trade deadline is still not for another week. A desperate team might give us a better deal when they're up against the wall.

 

I still say let's see what happens this season. Expectations are lower now and Dwight still needs some playoff experience. This gives him the chance to put the team on his shoulders and carry us, instead of letting someone else do it, like what's happen before.

[SmackDaddy 30]

I'm adding a number 8 to my list:

 

8) There are people talking about keeping this team together to meet championship goals for next year. Well, the economic ramifications will be profound on professional sports leagues. Companies that could not cancel luxury boxes this year, will look to get them off their books next season. Ad revenues will decrease. The salary cap may actually be reduced, and in line with that, the Luxury Tax level could be reduced as well. Meanwhile, Jameer's, Shard's, and Dwight's contracts will increase at maximum levels. On top of that, we will either resign Hedo, sign and trade him, or look to replace him with the MLE. One of those scenarios increases our payroll and keeps the same unit together. The second scenario increases payroll and puts a different unit together. The third scenario reduces payroll and puts a different unit together. One way or another, things change next year whether it's financially or in regard to our roster construction. Therefore, no matter how you look at it, things do not remain the same. So if your arguement is that Lue was brought on to keep things the same next year for a title run, you're flat wrong because that cannot happen.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

quote:

Originally posted by KillingInTheNameOf:

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

I don't think you can fault Otis for not getting a marquee player to replace Jameer after his injury. The Magic are at the beginning of their long term run at the title, and it would be silly to make a move for short term gain that is detrimental to that long term picture.

 

As far as the knock on Otis that he should have found a third PG for the team sooner, rather than later, particularly in KITN's case, since he has been saying that for months, sure. That's a legit complaint, but let me ask you this, if Otis had traded Bogans for Leu even a month ago to provide a little depth at the PG position, would that have changed how you feel now?

 

If he made that specific trade a month ago, not really. While Lue would be better prepared today, I still believe the goal should have been to either upgrade the backup PG, or acquire a 3rd PG with at least the potential to be an upgrade over AJ. Ie a younger player.

 

While I would love to see the organization take bold steps to acquire a suitable replacement as a starter, I realize Devos isn't Paul Allen, & has this team on a short leash.

 

But, the reason for having young players deep on your bench is so they have an opportunity to develop, and step up when a starter goes down. For example, if we had acquired J Crit, this would be a golden opportunity for him, and there's always the chance a young player emerges during a situation like this and you don't lose as much.

 

Lastly, the reason for the O in Kitno is because it matched TGOJG...I'm cleva like dat.

 

I'm still going with KITN, clever or not. Sorry.

 

I agree with JCritt, I was thinking more along the lines of people lamenting the fact that we didn't pick up Sessions. He wouldn't have been here long enough to 'develop'. It would have been an audition for him as far as free agency is concerned. I can only guess that the price for that audition was to high for Otis' liking.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Tree (New York): Doesn't Ramon Session's play warrant the question, what the heck is going on with NBA coaches and execs?? Fantasy players ALL know what he is capable of when he starts. Why don't coaches and GM's know this?? Is his defense so horrible that it overrides his offensive brilliance? These are questions I need answers to.

 

SportsNation David Thorpe: (12:36 PM ET ) Yes it does. Hollinger and I laugh about this.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

I'm adding a number 8 to my list:

 

8) There are people talking about keeping this team together to meet championship goals for next year. Well, the economic ramifications will be profound on professional sports leagues. Companies that could not cancel luxury boxes this year, will look to get them off their books next season. Ad revenues will decrease. The salary cap may actually be reduced, and in line with that, the Luxury Tax level could be reduced as well. Meanwhile, Jameer's, Shard's, and Dwight's contracts will increase at maximum levels. On top of that, we will either resign Hedo, sign and trade him, or look to replace him with the MLE. One of those scenarios increases our payroll and keeps the same unit together. The second scenario increases payroll and puts a different unit together. The third scenario reduces payroll and puts a different unit together. One way or another, things change next year whether it's financially or in regard to our roster construction. Therefore, no matter how you look at it, things do not remain the same. So if your arguement is that Lue was brought on to keep things the same next year for a title run, you're flat wrong because that cannot happen.

 

I think Lue was brought in because they plan on using the draft to pick up a back up point. I think all of this had more to do with him being an expiring contract at the point. I seriously doubt we would have picked up another point guard this year if Jameer had not been injured.

[Drain-O 369]

Was this really necessary to start a whole new thread about essentially the same thing.

 

Listen we can argue this all day long but the move to get rid of Arroyo and Dooling seemed to benefit Jameer to the point where it pushed him to all-star level. Re-signing one of those 2 tells Jameer the job is still not necessarily his and I do not think we see the same player. Same thing bringing in a young up and comer. This is an issue that Otis read correctly.

 

Listen I do not like AJ and think he is going to have a heart attack everytime I watch him but NO team in the NBA is going to replace an all-star caliber point guard and not miss a beat. Look at what is going on in New Orleans. Boston would be in the same predicament if Rondo went down. Cassell and House would get killed out there.

 

Injuries unfortunately are a part of professional sports and you need to be prepared for them the best you can. Those of you who saw this coming congratulations. I'm sure it helps you cheer the team on better.

[magicmikej 4]

quote:

7) As Magic fans we obviously feel that we are still the best team in our division, but there are two teams behind us in the standings that have a very good chance of overcoming us in the standings to win the SouthEast division. Atlanta always plays tough, and Miami still has Marion's expiring deal to make a major roster move - couple that with their weaker schedule strength the remainder of the season, and we'll be lucky to hold off one team, much less both.

 

Statements like this make me wonder how legitimate the rest of your points are.

 

You really believe that losing Jameer will cause us to lose our division lead to both the Hawks and Heat. After all last year many on the board said that Jameer stunk and would never lead us to a championship. Now he's out and we are finished.

 

Sure we are a stronger team with him, but AJ and TLue do not have to carry a big load to make us successful. They have to be adequate and let the best center in the NBA and 2 pretty good forwards lead the way. Throw in our shooting guards - MP and CLee and there is no way that the Hawks or Heat catch us. You know that we are only one loss behind the best record in the EAST.

 

 

quote:

Overall, the move to bring Lue on board answers very few questions while opening up numerous questions pertaining to Otis' commitment to putting the best possible unit on the floor this year when we had built up enough momentum to finally be classified with LA, BOS and CLE as the best in the league

 

 

I love all the closet GM's who question Otis commitment to bringing in a winner. I'm sure you all listened into the other conversations with GM's throughout the league and know that Otis turned down this deal or that. Why you probably think we could have had CP3 for KB and BC. Speculation is all you can deliver. Otis Smith is COMMITED to bringing a championship to Orlando. YOU may not always agree with his moves and that is your right but you cannot question the MAN and his DESIRE to make the ORLANDO MAGIC the BEST in the NBA.

 

Last year you questioned the contract that Otis gave to Jameer. You called him an idiot, that he couldn't speak in sentences. Now when Jameer lived up to the belief that Otis had in him you say that we are done when the injury occured. We are NOT done. We are a TEAM. We have great chemistry. We may not win it all. But the Orlando Magic being led by Otis Smith and Stan Van Gundy will not give up. We will persevere. After all that is what a Winner is.

[John the Jerk 0]

Smack you do bring up some valid points. However, lets correct a few things.

 

2) Otis' refusal to sign either of those two players to a contract equal in size to what we paid Wilkes & AJ eventually wreaks of poor business sense. Add to it the Lue contract, and we are now paying all three of our backup PGs more than 6million dollars. Seems silly now to say that Dooling or Arroyo were too expensive during the offseason, doesn't it?

 

Between our 3 backups (AJ, Lue, and Wilkes)

We are paying $4,957,581, and 3,047,581 comes off the books next year. You can't look at the $5 million Dollars and compare it to resigning keyon ($3,300,000 a year for 3 yrs) or Arroyo (Big money Overseas) because it would have cost us $3,300,000 plus Bogans $2,255,000 and put us in the Luxury Tax. In addition I think the magic valued Dooling for his defense it was obvious that ball movement stopped and he went Iso when he played the point. I'm not sure we need Keyon playing Iso when we have Rashard, Dwight, and Turk wanting the Ball. If the Magic Thought Keyon was a backup PG capable of running the point we may have resigned him but now we have a Lee and Pietrus duplicating Keyon's ability's.

 

AND I HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS ONE!!!

 

6) As Junkie keeps saying, there are no guarantees. To use Kramer's example of David Garrard, the first year results of a bold move to exile a worthy backup was a success. Now how about the following season where Garrard had one of the worst QB ratings in the NFL and the team followed up their 11-5 season with a 5-11 season?

 

You can't pin the blame on Garrard here!!! The Jaguars Hired a new defensive coordinator this year and have already realized their mistake and let him go. Their defense this year blew. When you do all these exotic blitz's and don't get to the QB you get torched.

 

Also look at all the injuries on the offensive line. This is huge for the Jaguars as they are built to control the line of scrimmage and establish the play-action pass. Meester their starting center missed 5 weeks, Vince Manuwai their Pro Bowl Guard missed Most of the season so they signed Chris Naeole to a contract then a week or two later he went down for the year. Then we Lost our best backups in Richard Collier when he was shot numerous times leaving him Paralyzed from the waist down and ending his career and Maurice Williams who played both Guard and Tackle for us off the Bench.

 

This arguement would have some merit if Leftwich would have proved to be a starting QB else elswhere, instead Garard lead us to the playoffs and a post season victory over the Steelers that year.

[John the Jerk 0]

quote:

Originally posted by magicmikej:

quote:

7) As Magic fans we obviously feel that we are still the best team in our division, but there are two teams behind us in the standings that have a very good chance of overcoming us in the standings to win the SouthEast division. Atlanta always plays tough, and Miami still has Marion's expiring deal to make a major roster move - couple that with their weaker schedule strength the remainder of the season, and we'll be lucky to hold off one team, much less both.

 

Statements like this make me wonder how legitimate the rest of your points are.

 

You really believe that losing Jameer will cause us to lose our division lead to both the Hawks and Heat. After all last year many on the board said that Jameer stunk and would never lead us to a championship. Now he's out and we are finished.

 

Sure we are a stronger team with him, but AJ and TLue do not have to carry a big load to make us successful. They have to be adequate and let the best center in the NBA and 2 pretty good forwards lead the way. Throw in our shooting guards - MP and CLee and there is no way that the Hawks or Heat catch us. You know that we are only one loss behind the best record in the EAST.

 

 

quote:

Overall, the move to bring Lue on board answers very few questions while opening up numerous questions pertaining to Otis' commitment to putting the best possible unit on the floor this year when we had built up enough momentum to finally be classified with LA, BOS and CLE as the best in the league

 

 

I love all the closet GM's who question Otis commitment to bringing in a winner. I'm sure you all listened into the other conversations with GM's throughout the league and know that Otis turned down this deal or that. Why you probably think we could have had CP3 for KB and BC. Speculation is all you can deliver. Otis Smith is COMMITED to bringing a championship to Orlando. YOU may not always agree with his moves and that is your right but you cannot question the MAN and his DESIRE to make the ORLANDO MAGIC the BEST in the NBA.

 

Last year you questioned the contract that Otis gave to Jameer. You called him an idiot, that he couldn't speak in sentences. Now when Jameer lived up to the belief that Otis had in him you say that we are done when the injury occured. We are NOT done. We are a TEAM. We have great chemistry. We may not win it all. But the Orlando Magic being led by Otis Smith and Stan Van Gundy will not give up. We will persevere. After all that is what a Winner is.

 

Well said Chap!!! Welcome to the Board.