The NBA's Best Big Man (Ever?) - Hoopsworld

[TheRevTy 6]

Ah the joys of the O-Zone message board.

[EnFuego 1]

Was the subject matter of this thread so bad that it needed to get hijacked so blatantly?

 

Anyway, only one thing will get Dwight in the conversation.

 

Rings.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

Then explain to me why when he went up against guys like the Great Muta and Moses Malone he couldn't stop them?

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

Was the subject matter of this thread so bad that it needed to get hijacked so blatantly?

 

Anyway, only one thing will get Dwight in the conversation.

 

Rings.

 

It was a hoopsworld article.

 

That being said I thought for sure that my post would be a jumping off point for a discussion of one of 3 things:

 

1. Napoleon

2. The Die Hard Movies

or 3. Slim Jims.

 

The idea of it turning into a comparison of Savage's wrestling career to Flair's through relating everything they did in wrestling to basketball skills wasn't even on my radar. It's one of the better threadjacks I've seen on this board.

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

Was the subject matter of this thread so bad that it needed to get hijacked so blatantly?

 

Anyway, only one thing will get Dwight in the conversation.

 

Rings.

 

That and at least 10 more seasons of play at this level. Then Dwight is in the discussion.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

quote:

Originally posted by EnFuego:

Was the subject matter of this thread so bad that it needed to get hijacked so blatantly?

 

Anyway, only one thing will get Dwight in the conversation.

 

Rings.

 

That and at least 10 more seasons of play at this level. Then Dwight is in the discussion.

 

I disagree. I think 10 more seasons at this level and he's maybe in the lower half of the top 10 centers of all time, and between 12-15 of the top "bigs" all time(so as to include 4s and 5s).

 

I'm guessing if one were to list the top 6 centers of all time the list would include the following names in some order:

 

Kareem

Chamberlain

Russell

Shaq

Hakeem

Moses

 

Obviously style of play and competition means something, but looking at their level of dominance, it's tough to NOT realize that Dwight has a long road ahead. Just look at the accomplishments:

 

Kareem - NBA's all time scoring leader, averaged at least 20/10 for 13 years, over 30/14 3 times. 19 time all-star, 5 time MVP. More titles than I feel like counting up. Ditto for All-NBA teams. Never finished worse than 10th in MVP voting in his first 16 years! in the league. 2 time finals MVP

 

Wilt- Single season record holder for PPG and RPG, and it's not close. Averaged 30/22 FOR HIS CAREER. 14 time all-star. 4 time MVP. 1 time Finals MVP. Led the league in rebounding 12 times. Led the league in points 7 times. Led the league in assists! once.

 

Russell - League's first dominant defensive player. 12 time all-star. 5 time MVP. Anchor of arguably the most dominant team in history. Possibly the league's greatest shotblocker ever, who played before the stat existed. Too many titles to mention.

 

Shaq - career averages of 25/11 despite a slowed down league. Dominant offensive player. 1 time MVP. 3 consecutive finals MVPs, 4 titles. 14 time all star. 8 time all nba 1st team. Led the league in scoring twice. Unguardable in the playoffs.

 

Hakeem - 13 time all-star. first to win back to back defensive player of the year awards. Possibly the best 2 way center of all time. NBA's all-time leading shotblocker. 1 time MVP, 2 time Finals MVP. Originator of the Dream Shake. 1 of 4 players to record a Quadruple Double.

 

Moses- career averages of 20/12, despite doing nothing his last 3 seasons worth noting. 3 time MVP. 11 time NBA all star, 1 time ABA all star. 1 time Finals MVP, which featured him making Kareem look stupid. All-time leading offensive rebounder.

 

So for Dwight to catch THOSE guys, he's going to have to put up either some astronomical stats, win a lot of rings, or both. He's on his way, obviously, and is on pace to having DPOY locked up by March, which is a huge boon, but it'll be 6 years before we can really discuss this seriously.

[Emory889 353]

That's a good list. I would probably put Shaq ahead of Russell but that is nitpicking.

 

Its important to remember the different eras when comparing these players in a statistical sense. Its physically impossible for anyone to ever put up the numbers that Wilt did or win the number of championships that Russell did. The league has too much parity and talent for that to happen. On the flip side, put Dwight, Shaq, or Duncan in the 60's and I all but guarantee that they would put up some eye popping numbers as well. I wish there was a way to have the game's great players in their primes take on todays current players. If it was on Pay-per-view I would order it.

 

I threw 10 seasons out there because it was a nice round number. Still, if you look at Dwight's current averages and factor in the fact that his offensive game is still improving and its not far fetched at all to say he will be in the top 5 alltime when his career is over. He has a real statistical chance to be the best rebounding big man of alltime. That alone should put him in the conversation.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Comparing players between eras is difficult to be sure. Even if you assume equal competition and equal parity(which are both not remotely safe assumptions), you still are looking at a difference of something like 25+ possessions a game between the Russell/Chamberlain era and now. If Dwight had maintained his percentages from last year, but had an extra 25 possessions, he'd have averaged 26.24/18. So you do have to compare level of dominance to level of dominance.

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

quote:

Originally posted by Drain-O:

The Macho Man seems to inconsistent for me. Give me the Nature Boy Ric Flair over him any day.

 

Ric Flair's overrated, boys. The guy was consistent, but he was a drama queen and a fairly dirty player. He's almost in the "Kevin Nash" class of overrated players.

 

Savage was a monster, but some would argue that he was second to Goldberg in terms of brute strength, ferocity, and sheer intimidation.

 

Nobody gives love to the late/great Rey Mysterio. The guy was a one-man broadway show. This guy was the original "Big Ticket".