do these boards reflect the ethno-centric nature of humans?

[The Dude Abides 0]

I have some reservations about even getting involved in this one - as it seems to have once again, gone offtopic. not blaming anybody.

 

Heres my take.

 

The original posters question relates to the etho-centricity of this board and Magic and if it is a microcosim of human nature.. First of all lets say that we have inheritantly already divided ourselves up with that statement. I dont mean to be divisive or leave anybody out, but I think the root of the question goes to culture of Puerto Ricans and the Culture of americans - this is what ethnocentricity means - It bears no relation to race - and also to clear things up Puerto Ricans and Americans are the same race - when you speak of racism, you speak incorrectly - the word you should be using is bigotry.

 

The culture of the Puerto Rican people seems to be one of passion, devotion, nationalism, love and pride. All commendable and admirable qualities that no one can take anything but positve away from.

 

The American culture is a culture of cultures. We embrace all cultures and have come together as one to make our own unique perspective which encompassess all people and their cultures - If you will, a Team.

 

The ethnocentricity of this board and this issue is a direct confrontation of the two cultures - We express our points differently, we see things differently - We as an American culture are for the most part, and not excusing actions by others, a group that is open to others joining the team, as long as you are a productive member as such.

 

What drives spikes between us here is when the PR culture comes in and refuses to play nicely with the TEAM..someone comes in a spits in our face, guess what, its gettin spit back in. and would expect the PR's to do the same -

 

It all come down to this being a magic board - we want the magic to win, to say that our decisions are based on race or culture is a blatant misrepresentation of the big picture - and thats the Magic winning. Anybody who says otherwise is not a fan of the Magic, and I will remind you once again that this is a mgaic board and as such, outsiders coming in and occupying our area, where we come no matter of race, creed, color, religeon or politics - no matter how crappy we play - no matter who comes and goes... this is our board- the magic board and anybody who attacks our collective "culture" will have to deal with the consequences.

 

my 2 cents... Lets see if im called a BIGOT for it

[the Judge 0]

Abides-

 

I agree that "ethnic origin" and "race" are not the same, it's just that some people (me included) use the word "race" kind of as an abbreviation. At this point however it may be wise to be more specific about such things.

[the Judge 0]

MagicManinMiami-

 

I'm a little lost. Can you do me a favor? Could you please summarize in one or two short sentences waht the feud with the Mod is about. I'm interested in knowing.

[bhnole 153]

quote:

Originally posted by The Dude Abides:

 

my 2 cents... Lets see if im called a BIGOT for it

 

 

(Sorry Dude, just trying to add a little humor to this quickly souring thread)

[MagicmaninMiami 0]

quote:

The culture of the Puerto Rican people seems to be one of passion, devotion, nationalism, love and pride. All commendable and admirable qualities that no one can take anything but positve away from.

 

The American culture is a culture of cultures. We embrace all cultures and have come together as one to make our own unique perspective which encompassess all people and their cultures - If you will, a Team.

 

The ethnocentricity of this board and this issue is a direct confrontation of the two cultures - We express our points differently, we see things differently - We as an American culture are for the most part, and not excusing actions by others, a group that is open to others joining the team, as long as you are a productive member as such.

 

What drives spikes between us here is when the PR culture comes in and refuses to play nicely with the TEAM

 

Wow!. This thread just got REAL interesting. I hope no one attacks you The Dude because this is the kind of thing we need to get out there for its honesty.

 

That said can't you see the bigotry in that? If the American culture embraces all cultures then its fair to say that the Puerto Rican culture is part of the American culture. Its not an us against them or the PR culture "comes in and refuses to play nicely" I don't think there is a PR magic fan that doesn't want the team to win. But here you look to have a serious problem -

 

" this is our board- the magic board and anybody who attacks our collective "culture" will have to deal with the consequences."

 

Exactly who is attacking the collective culture?

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicmaninMiami:

quote:

The culture of the Puerto Rican people seems to be one of passion, devotion, nationalism, love and pride. All commendable and admirable qualities that no one can take anything but positve away from.

 

The American culture is a culture of cultures. We embrace all cultures and have come together as one to make our own unique perspective which encompassess all people and their cultures - If you will, a Team.

 

The ethnocentricity of this board and this issue is a direct confrontation of the two cultures - We express our points differently, we see things differently - We as an American culture are for the most part, and not excusing actions by others, a group that is open to others joining the team, as long as you are a productive member as such.

 

What drives spikes between us here is when the PR culture comes in and refuses to play nicely with the TEAM

 

Wow!. This thread just got REAL interesting. I hope no one attacks you The Dude because this is the kind of thing we need to get out there for its honesty.

 

That said can't you see the bigotry in that? If the American culture embraces all cultures then its fair to say that the Puerto Rican culture is part of the American culture. Its not an us against them or the PR culture "comes in and refuses to play nicely" I don't think there is a PR magic fan that doesn't want the team to win. But here you look to have a serious problem -

 

" this is our board- the magic board and anybody who attacks our collective "culture" will have to deal with the consequences."

 

Exactly who is attacking the collective culture?

 

Culture in this case, I believe(I hope I'm not putting incorrect words in The Dude's mouth) means "how things are done" or the etiquitte of the board. As for the conflict of cultures, I think the point there is that the American culture is one of inclusion, sometimes forced inclusion, where as the Puerto Rican culture is one of independence. So we end up with a situation where the American culture wants to include the Puerto Rican people as a part of its culture, while the Puerto Rican culture wishes to remain independent.

 

To put it bluntly, a post that reads: "Jammer sux! Carlos is champion of love and honor!" is not productive, useful, intelligent, or sane. This would hold true regardless of what combination of names were in the above post. I dont' care who it is, the post still makes me want to gouge out my eyes with a dull cactus. That'd be true if it was Tony that sucked, with Darko being the champion of love, or Turk and Trevor, or Grant and JJ. Whatever. The point isn't the people being named, it's how the poster is presenting their "argument".

 

I honestly don't care if someone believes Carlos WAS the champion of love and honor. Just explain tactfully, intelligently why and how Carlos became the champion of love, and how that pertains to basketball, if it does.

 

And it also bugs me personally when people can't spell Jameer's name correctly. But that's a pet peeve of mine.

[MagicmaninMiami 0]

quote:

Originally posted by the Judge:

MagicManinMiami-

 

I'm a little lost. Can you do me a favor? Could you please summarize in one or two short sentences waht the feud with the Mod is about. I'm interested in knowing.

 

Details I can't get into - Not for this thread The Judge. Suffice to say the last time I was contacted by a mod was because I took issue with a long time poster here who launched an attack on Arroyo fans that was borderline racist. What might be pertinent to this thread is that sometimes at least the responses you get on these boards has less to do with principle (right or wrong) than who is doing the attacking. In my opinion those who tend to lead this board are less sympathetic to Arroyo supporters because they happen to not be a part of the assumed leaders online clique. Arroyo posters have been members for less time. I gather for innocent enough reasons there aren't many Puerto Ricans in that group.

 

I have noticed that mods seldom step in to support arroyo posters but routinely defend those that attack them. IT will be denied no doubt but I have been around long enough and been attacked for taking on an PR attacker so I know its most definitely true. I suspect Arroyo fans are seeing the same thing.

 

MY beef with the mods is that they don't mediate. they take the side of their chronies. That and they don't enforce the Terms of service the Magic legal team have clearly spelled out which is the whole other matter i'll let rest.

 

Let the flames begin. LOL

[MagicmaninMiami 0]

quote:

Culture in this case, I believe(I hope I'm not putting incorrect words in The Dude's mouth) means "how things are done" or the etiquitte of the board. As for the conflict of cultures, I think the point there is that the American culture is one of inclusion, sometimes forced inclusion, where as the Puerto Rican culture is one of independence. So we end up with a situation where the American culture wants to include the Puerto Rican people as a part of its culture, while the Puerto Rican culture wishes to remain independent.

 

Thanks for that but I can't agree. We all want some form of independence. Whether its Irish American, Italian American. Theres some independence there. Most of our own families ultimately came from somewhere else and theres nothing wrong with some pride in that. The history of the US defies the idea that all we want is inclusion of other cultures. That might be the view of the majority Anglo Saxon community but I can't think of any minority I know that thinks thats the case. I think we are about average with every other nation on that.

[Hutchence 1]

I wasn't sure that everyone understood the definition:

 

Ethnocentrism is the tendency to look at the world primarily from the perspective of one's own culture. It as the viewpoint that

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicmaninMiami:

quote:

Culture in this case, I believe(I hope I'm not putting incorrect words in The Dude's mouth) means "how things are done" or the etiquitte of the board. As for the conflict of cultures, I think the point there is that the American culture is one of inclusion, sometimes forced inclusion, where as the Puerto Rican culture is one of independence. So we end up with a situation where the American culture wants to include the Puerto Rican people as a part of its culture, while the Puerto Rican culture wishes to remain independent.

 

Thanks for that but I can't agree. We all want some form of independence. Whether its Irish American, Italian American. Theres some independence there. Most of our own families ultimately came from somewhere else and theres nothing wrong with some pride in that. The history of the US defies the idea that all we want is inclusion of other cultures. That might be the view of the majority Anglo Saxon community but I can't think of any minority I know that thinks thats the case. I think we are about average with every other nation on that.

 

I think you and I agree, actually, you're just not understanding my point. Yes, most people are proud of their heritage as being Italian American or Irish American, but they would still identify themselves as Americans. While subgroups certainly still exist, as they should, it is, at least in my view, the way of the american culture to absorb, and in doing so dissolve, subgroup cultures. I.E. force people to identify themselves as Americans first, Puerto Ricans second, and not the other way around.

 

As for the history of racism in the United States, I don't think it hasn't any bearing on a rational dialogue, since racism and bigotry are in and of themselves not rational. There certainly have been a long tradition of regrettable and terrible incidents of racism in this country, whether it was slavery, the bigotry against the irish immigrants in the 1870s, the lynchings of mexicans and mexican americans in california in the early 20th century, the relocation of the japanese in WW2, the zoot-suit riots of the late 40s, the racism against Puerto Ricans in the 50s and 60s, and so on. While all that's the case, I don't its necessarily fair or right to bring up things like that in a responsible discussion, simply because I can't make the counterpoint that those things didn't happen, and I certainly won't argue that they were right. They were appalling. But that doesn't mean that because I am, as you reffered to it, an Anglo-Saxon majority member(though tecnically, I'm not), I should be held accountable for sins committed by other people just because they shared my skin color.

[The Dude Abides 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by MagicmaninMiami:

quote:

Culture in this case, I believe(I hope I'm not putting incorrect words in The Dude's mouth) means "how things are done" or the etiquitte of the board. As for the conflict of cultures, I think the point there is that the American culture is one of inclusion, sometimes forced inclusion, where as the Puerto Rican culture is one of independence. So we end up with a situation where the American culture wants to include the Puerto Rican people as a part of its culture, while the Puerto Rican culture wishes to remain independent.

 

Thanks for that but I can't agree. We all want some form of independence. Whether its Irish American, Italian American. Theres some independence there. Most of our own families ultimately came from somewhere else and theres nothing wrong with some pride in that. The history of the US defies the idea that all we want is inclusion of other cultures. That might be the view of the majority Anglo Saxon community but I can't think of any minority I know that thinks thats the case. I think we are about average with every other nation on that.

 

I think you and I agree, actually, you're just not understanding my point. Yes, most people are proud of their heritage as being Italian American or Irish American, but they would still identify themselves as Americans. While subgroups certainly still exist, as they should, it is, at least in my view, the way of the american culture to absorb, and in doing so dissolve, subgroup cultures. I.E. force people to identify themselves as Americans first, Puerto Ricans second, and not the other way around.

 

 

Yo Drunk - this post and the first reply were exactly what i was tryin to say - just not so well. and with this said, im out of this one until things right themselves in this thread- way to inflamatory and without purpose anymore if we just go round in round in circles talking to a combative, argumentative, stubborn-brick wall.

[Gilgalpro 0]

Honestly, this is becoming better than 24 and Lost at the same time. Currently, I am trying to watch Casino Royale but I prefer the good addictive drama that is going on here. On a more serious note, I understand why some people relate this controversy to race. I personally have experience racism in my work. However, I don not base every single experience based on that. To become objective you have to set aside your emotions and feelings. I believe the situation with Arroyo has nothing to do with race. I remember when he came on last year everybody was happy and praising him. Since then a lot of thing happened, especially the debacle of the team after a good start. That situation has stirred some emotions and at the same time has brought out the worse on some of us. I am a Puerto Rican that started to follow the team when CA was traded to the Magic, but I have learn to love the team as a whole the same way I love this great country of ours. Yes, we Puerto Ricans are America Citizens. I personally serve in the military. The days of the KKK are gone. People are value for what they are, and I think CA will be in due time.