There is NO LAW.. income tax, media, which candidate for President do you support?

[Nessloch 0]

Please take a look at this movie:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-16568803038673...ype=search&plindex=0

 

Keep in mind that this video has had over 3,000,000 views, but Google takes it back down to around 40,000 every few weeks like clockwork. It happened again on December 7th, but this time it was reduced to zero.

 

. . .

 

Everybody wants to talk about Hillary. And Rudy. And Obama. And Hillary. And Mitt. And Hillary. And Hillary. And now Huckabee. And Obama. And more Rudy.

 

What do you guys think? I support Ron Paul and Mike Gravel. I have a good deal of respect for Dennis Kucinich as well. But the media doesn't like to talk about these candidates.

 

For an introduction into what Ron Paul stands for, watch this video that shattered Youtube records for most views in a single day:

 

 

Also, I found this great video of Mike Gravel, democratic presidential nominee, former Alaskan senator:

 

 

Please help spread the message Liberty in 2008, no matter who you vote for.

 

Thank you.

[Nessloch 0]

Please take a look at this movie:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-16568803038673...ype=search&plindex=0

 

Keep in mind that this video has had over 3,000,000 views, but Google takes it back down to around 40,000 every few weeks like clockwork. It happened again on December 7th, but this time it was reduced to zero.

 

. . .

 

Everybody wants to talk about Hillary. And Rudy. And Obama. And Hillary. And Mitt. And Hillary. And Hillary. And now Huckabee. And Obama. And more Rudy.

 

What do you guys think? I support Ron Paul and Mike Gravel. I have a good deal of respect for Dennis Kucinich as well. But the media doesn't like to talk about these candidates.

 

For an introduction into what Ron Paul stands for, watch this video that shattered Youtube records for most views in a single day:

 

 

Also, I found this great video of Mike Gravel, democratic presidential nominee, former Alaskan senator:

 

 

Please help spread the message Liberty in 2008, no matter who you vote for.

 

Thank you.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Assuming I were to believe every claim made here and in these videos is true(I don't), you still have yet to provide any reason, beyond short-sighted greed, I wouldn't WANT to pay my federal income taxes. People will always complain about paying too much taxes, that's a give, but people also need to realize that no taxes means no military, schools, fire, law enforcement, etc... Funding for those things has to come from somewhere. If you don't tax income, you have to tax something else.

 

Fundamentally, that's what government is. An agreement between a group of individuals and their governing body that says that the individuals will pay a certain fee(taxes) and obey certain rules(laws) in exchange for protection, both from the government and from international forces. Freedoms and money for security and quality of life.

[Nessloch 0]

I have edited my original post/title because I don't want to offend anyone with my own, personal assertions.

 

I just ask that people watch this film and let me know what their opinions.

 

I posted it because I feel these things are true and I am deeply concerned for our future as a free society.

[Nessloch 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

Assuming I were to believe every claim made here and in these videos is true(I don't), you still have yet to provide any reason, beyond short-sighted greed, I wouldn't WANT to pay my federal income taxes. People will always complain about paying too much taxes, that's a give, but people also need to realize that no taxes means no military, schools, fire, law enforcement , etc... Funding for those things has to come from somewhere. If you don't tax income, you have to tax something else.

 

Fundamentally, that's what government is. An agreement between a group of individuals and their governing body that says that the individuals will pay a certain fee(taxes) and obey certain rules(laws) in exchange for protection, both from the government and from international forces. Freedoms and money for security and quality of life.

 

This is part of what the movie claims to be false.

 

When we talk about what the government is doing with the money collected from the income tax, there is an argument made in the film that most of us here probably share: the money isn't going where it's supposed to go. It's painfully obvious and that's because we're paying everything at interest. It is the fundamental reason we've driven so far off the path from the original intent of the Constitution. Disgusting. The taxation powers have limited our freedom for decades and there is no telling where we'd be right now had we fought off the private interests that seized control of the government long ago.

 

One of the big issues in the film is undocumented adjustments. Which is to say the money can't be traced, it is missing.

 

In fiscal 1999, the dept of defense had 1.1 Trillion dollars in undocumented adjustments. The following year it had 2.3 trillion in undocumented adjustments. I'm taking the film at its word here, which I see now is dangerous. But I haven't been able to disprove this and if it's true - what.. the.. f..

 

The idea that we can't get by without an income tax is to say that you like government the way it is, right? Which I don't think most agree with. Especially if you agree with Peter Grace's findings in the Grace Commission. Who is to say that we can't get by without an income tax? Well, ask yourselves this, how did we fund government from 1776 to 1913? It can be done! Just think about how much more money the people would have as opposed to government. Who is to say that the American people aren't responsible enough to take care of themselves?

 

Education, for the most part, is paid for by state and local property taxes. The Department of Education is a joke, if you contrast the amount of money it takes to fund it with the amount of money allocated to particular programs, you will find yourself ill. As is the case with many, many government agencies.

 

I've heard stated appreciation for the funding of the highways, well these are funded by the taxes on gasoline that we pay. The income tax does not fund highway construction! Apparently, this is a little known fact.

 

The film claims that the amount of money we spend on defense is exactly equal to the amount corporate taxes we collect, which are perfectly legal under the Constitution.

 

Understand, I wasn't a believer until I watched it either. I thought this movie was going to be a big joke..

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

I feel like a couple things deserve responses here:

 

First of all, you missed my point. I have no idea which taxes go to which federal programs. I don't care, either. Taxes exist as part of the aforementioned contract between a populace and its government.

 

"Who is to say that we can't get by without an income tax? Well, ask yourselves this, how did we fund government from 1776 to 1913?"

 

Answer: We rode horses, train, steel, and oil tycoons made fortunes with monopolies, and we hadn't yet established ourselves as a military or economic super power. Also, there were zeppelins, which is pretty awesome.

 

Applying the standards of any time period to any other time period is like asking an apple to become an orange. It doesn't work, and you just pine for something you can't have. There's simply no way to convert this country, as it exists now, to a pre-WW1 economy(or mentality, or anything else) because we are no longer a pre-WW1 country, and haven't been for almost a century.

 

"When we talk about what the government is doing with the money collected from the income tax, there is an argument made in the film that most of us here probably share: the money isn't going where it's supposed to go. It's painfully obvious and that's because we're paying everything at interest. It is the fundamental reason we've driven so far off the path from the original intent of the Constitution. Disgusting. The taxation powers have limited our freedom for decades and there is no telling where we'd be right now had we fought off the private interests that seized control of the government long ago."

 

Answer: You make two separate claims here, and their not mutually exclusive, per se, but they don't really support each other. You claim that we shouldn't be taxed, and also that the current tax money doesn't go where it should as a reason. That's a lot like a baseball team saying: "Our right fielder isn't any good. We shouldn't have a right fielder." It's, at best, faulty logic.

And then you go on a tangent about private interests invading the government, which not only has no backing in anything you wrote, it makes little to no sense in the context of what you wrote. You're claim is that government has overexerted its will in taxing too much. That's a claim you can make, but to toss on a charge of corruption by individuals makes no sense, while actually implying the opposite of what you're trying to argue.

 

"Just think about how much more money the people would have as opposed to government. Who is to say that the American people aren't responsible enough to take care of themselves?"

 

Answer: Did you pay your monthly fee with the disaster aid organization? Forgot? Oh well, they'll let your house burn down. Privatization is fun!

 

Don't get me started on the prospect of private militaries.

 

"In fiscal 1999, the dept of defense had 1.1 Trillion dollars in undocumented adjustments. The following year it had 2.3 trillion in undocumented adjustments. I'm taking the film at its word here, which I see now is dangerous. But I haven't been able to disprove this and if it's true - what.. the.. f.."

 

Answer: I'm pretty sure that was the money used to bring down the twin towers on 9/11. Must everything be a conspiracy theory on the internet?

[Nessloch 0]

You're missing the big picture, my friend. And I don't want to sound arrogant, believe me, but do you truly realize how large, secretive our government has become? Sure, things have changed quite a bit since 1913, it's a completely different world, but do you really, truly believe the system would collapse without an income tax?

 

Keep in mind that corporate taxes are perfectly Constitutional and generate hundreds of billions of dollars, and they should probably be paying more. Much more. After all, in addition to private bankers, the big corporations are the one's who have benefited most from the Income tax AND the Federal Reserve Act, both "passed" in 1913 after being heavily pushed by private bankers for years and years.

 

The government is just an extension of private bankers, who seized control of our monetary system in 1913. Every dollar we spend is paid at interest, adding to the debt. The Founders intended for our services to be allowed an even exchange for money. Not credit. Doesn't this irk you, just a bit?

 

Have you ever read Woodrow Wilson's statement about how he had "unwittingly ruined his country.. a great industrial nation is now held captive by a system of credit" - he said these things after signing the Federal Reserve Act.

 

Did you realize the Federal Reserve is a private corporation? Did you know that the dollar is legal tender? Which is to say it is backed by nothing, other than how much of it is in circulation? This gives, essentially, all the power to a few, private and unelected men.

 

How can you justify the Income tax, when the amount gathered from the people is equal to the amount missing and/or wasted? It doesn't make any sense.

 

Do you really believe that government pays for education? We pay more money for the bureaucracy of Education than the Department of Education pays back! It's outrageous!

 

Believe me, I am not against the philosophy of paying an income tax. It sounds great. Take my money, and do great things with it. And I'm not trying to imply that we shouldn't pay our taxes, because most of the time - people are put in jail. There have been some who have been cleared based on the fact that there is no concrete statutory law stating specifically that the average American is liable to pay an income tax.

 

The last Supreme Court ruling on the 16th amendment clearly stated "No new powers of taxation" and this was done because the Constitution cannot contradict itself. The Constitution states, paraphrasing here, "no direct tax shall be laid without apportionment."

 

Our Founders made several warnings against the threat of bankers infiltrating our system of government. Well, it looks as though we've failed.

 

Please watch the movie, it isn't sensational at all as the title seems to suggest. It is mostly interviews with IRS agents, the IRS commissioner, Jurors, lawyers, etc. etc.

 

Please. Watch it and tell me what you think.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

umm, i get money from the government for my education.

 

Ron Paul has some good ideas. The others are all too radical.

 

I've debated this too much to post another long rant.

 

Obama>Paul

[Nessloch 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

umm, i get money from the government for my education.

 

Ron Paul has some good ideas. The others are all too radical.

 

I've debated this too much to post another long rant.

 

Obama>Paul

 

Repealing the income tax is moot compared to the very serious dangers that now face this country. I posted this movie more for its discussion of the inevitable National ID card, RFID chipping, North American Union, etc.

 

Barrack Obama is funded by the very same corporations as Hillary, Rudy, Mitt, etc. No matter how you slice it, he is one of the "trusted" candidates. And I'm not talking about casual, random donations. I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars from Citigroup, Timewarner, Goldman Sachs, etc. etc. With an understanding of what these major corporations historically orchestrate, dictate you would realize that this immediately disqualifies him from being trusted.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but if I am - he would be an exception to the rule.

 

I'm not saying he is undoubtedly a puppet, but look at the history of elections and how much candidates get in contributions from these multi-billion dollar enterprises. The corporations have literally picking for us for decades. Why do you think Obama is doing so well? Because of his long history in the Senate? Please. He is one of the hand picked, and in the end, would probably not change our disastrous course.

 

The Constitution has literally been dismantled and we are well on our way to a Police State. Our fundamental rights are under attack and Obama, Hillary want to talk about health care, environment?

 

Kucinich and Gravel can be trusted, they have a long history of standing up for our civil liberties. They also had the courage to call out Hillary, Obama and other leading democrats for their weakness in the face of our eroding rights as free individuals.

 

The real stories in this race are the ones you have to dig for. One must first realize that the media is completely controlled. This is the hardest hurdle for most to clear, because the MSM is where most get their information. When Ron Paul announced his candidacy, the "powers that be" tried everything they could to stop him from running. The GOP filed a petition to try to get him banned from the debates. The media (CNN, ABC, FOXNews, etc.) all joined together in attack mode, and it continues to this day. He has won more straw polls than any other candidate and yet not a peep from the media. In the past two weeks, the GOP has canceled three straw polls because hundreds of Ron Paul supporters showed up.

 

The media has historically ignored candidates who speak Truth to Power. And 2008 is no different.

 

I can understand the appeal with Obama. He's young and perhaps untouched by the rampant corruption in Washington. But in the end, the most important issues revolve around our basic, fundamental rights and Ron Paul is far and away the best choice for restoration of the Constitution.

 

I am typically a democratic voter and would have probably voted for Kucinich if it weren't for Ron Paul. I don't agree with everything he says, but he has a real shot at winning the GOP nomination if we can get past voter fraud.

 

I highly recommend watching the film I linked, and also "Zeitgeist" before they are deleted from Google video again. "Zeitgeist" can be watched for free on Google video or at www.zeitgeistmovie.com .

 

With that said, you shouldn't trust films and vote accordingly. I would never suggest these films will change your mind alone, but they give you an introduction into the secretive, monolithic societies that have been controlling the population for centuries. It's only a conspiracy theory until you examine the evidence.

 

The evidence is in plain sight. Look at the war. Look at what has happened since 9/11. And that's just recent history. It goes much, much deeper.

[Nessloch 0]

We're all in this together, brothers.

 

 

I felt good about Obama - even liked Huckabee, Richardson, etc. As an African American I donated to Obama within the first couple weeks he announced his candidacy. Because I KNEW their would be resentment towards his ethnicity, as well as his name "Obama". But the more I watched him and followed the money and watched it play out, I began to lose trust little by little. This election is too important for me to turn a blind eye to these candidate's records. I'd rather see him in office than Hillary, but I fear that, ultimately, there may be little difference. "Follow the money" as Mike Gravel said in the democratic debate. That man is right on the money.

 

Until I looked at and studied their records. And now we're seeing that the media "Trusts" these candidates and gives them all the air time they can handle.

 

If you research the history of how an authoritarian government rises into power, you will be horrified to see the same tactics in media as present in ours.

 

I think Ron Paul and Mike Gravel would be the ultimate ticket: two angry old men fighting for the constitution. It would be incredible.

[The Ghost of John Gabriel 0]

"The land of the free, who ever told you that is your enemy"

 

Freedom comes with a responsibility that we collectively are no longer willing to accept. The decentralization of the federal government is virtually impossible given all the dependents and obligations of Uncle Sam. We have an entire political party who's priority is to preserve the raw deal and expand it at all cost. I don't doubt the sincerity of their motives, but their actions disgust me, and their views contradict the principles this country was founded and built upon. They justify economic ignorance with social injustices.

 

"Extremists" like Ron Paul are easily dismissed because the blind masses fail to realize we've already been raped (as documented in your video for example), have come to accept socialism packaged as entitlement programs, and come to accept entitlement programs as anything other than what they are. We've come thank the federal government for every little crumb they allow us to keep and welcome phrases like targeted tax cuts into the lexicon because it might benefit me if I fetch and step for politician X.

 

These ideas are accepted as extreme because insituting them would require a radical overhaul of previous unconstituational acts & programs that violate our core principles of democracy and capitalism. The irony and hypocrisy of which is mind numbing.

 

Liberals have convinced citizens nestled at the teet of Uncle Sam that any attempt to restore these fundamental principles would threaten their way of life. Unfortunately, they are too blind to realize they have traded their freedoms away for crumbs that enslave them in a way of life that is not worth preserving.

 

Socialism is a failed form of government, yet we have a political party dedicated, even if unwittingly so, to it's principles. A national health care system is inevitable and it will be the final nail in the coffin of capitalism in this country. It will make restoring the principles of the constitution & capitalism exponentially more difficult if not all together impossible. Sadly, it is by design.

 

We've threatened countries with nuclear bombs and fought wars to spread capitalism and yet it's a principle one of our political parties dispisses. More irony, more hypocrisy.

 

History repeats itself. Every great civilivation eats itself. We are no different. The principles which this country was founded on are vilified and our citizens embrace the injustices this nation was born out of because they take their freedom for granted and are no longer willing to accept the responsibility that comes with it. Contentment breads apathy, apathy invites explotiation, and eventually we become desensitized to it.

 

The party who claims to represent the principles our nation was built upon lacks the credibility to restore those principles. They wave the bible and the consitution in one hand while exacting injustices on our citizens and human beings around the world with the other. They justify social ignorance & injustice with economic prosperity.

 

Our two party system is a catastrophic failure. The only thing it has succeeded at is creating a spirit of faction that keeps the masses confused & obedient. It stiffles individualism in every way imaginable from top to bottom. Which breeds corruption. How else could you possibly explain the systemic corruption in politics that we collectively have come to accept? This corrupt farce needs to be dismantled. This system needs to be burned to the ground and the first candidate who stands upon that platform will have my full support.

 

These grass root candidates and outsiders are long standing political insiders who have done nothing except successfully package and sell themselves as such. The only positive I see being born out of these grass roots candidates are that they are setting the stage for true independents who can exact change and restore order. With any luck, who will break the structure up.

 

 

"I'll give you a taste, but it will never come close to the rage built up inside of me, fist in the air in the land of hypocrisy"

[Nessloch 0]

quote:

Originally posted by The Ghost of John Gabriel:

"The land of the free, who ever told you that is your enemy"

 

Freedom comes with a responsibility that we collectively are no longer willing to accept. The decentralization of the federal government is virtually impossible given all the dependents and obligations of Uncle Sam. We have an entire political party who's priority is to preserve the raw deal and expand it at all cost. I don't doubt the sincerity of their motives, but their actions disgust me, and their views contradict the principles this country was founded and built upon. They justify economic ignorance with social injustices.

 

"Extremists" like Ron Paul are easily dismissed because the blind masses fail to realize we've already been raped (as documented in your video for example), have come to accept socialism packaged as entitlement programs, and come to accept entitlement programs as anything other than what they are. We've come thank the federal government for every little crumb they allow us to keep and welcome phrases like targeted tax cuts into the lexicon because it might benefit me if I fetch and step for politician X.

 

These ideas are accepted as extreme because insituting them would require a radical overhaul of previous unconstituational acts & programs that violate our core principles of democracy and capitalism. The irony and hypocrisy of which is mind numbing.

 

Liberals have convinced citizens nestled at the teet of Uncle Sam that any attempt to restore these fundamental principles would threaten their way of life. Unfortunately, they are too blind to realize they have traded their freedoms away for crumbs that enslave them in a way of life that is not worth preserving.

 

Socialism is a failed form of government, yet we have a political party dedicated, even if unwittingly so, to it's principles. A national health care system is inevitable and it will be the final nail in the coffin of capitalism in this country. It will make restoring the principles of the constitution & capitalism exponentially more difficult if not all together impossible. Sadly, it is by design.

 

We've threatened countries with nuclear bombs and fought wars to spread capitalism and yet it's a principle one of our political parties dispisses. More irony, more hypocrisy.

 

History repeats itself. Every great civilivation eats itself. We are no different. The principles which this country was founded on are vilified and our citizens embrace the injustices this nation was born out of because they take their freedom for granted and are no longer willing to accept the responsibility that comes with it. Contentment breads apathy, apathy invites explotiation, and eventually we become desensitized to it.

 

The party who claims to represent the principles our nation was built upon lacks the credibility to restore those principles. They wave the bible and the consitution in one hand while exacting injustices on our citizens and human beings around the world with the other. They justify social ignorance & injustice with economic prosperity.

 

Our two party system is a catastrophic failure. The only thing it has succeeded at is creating a spirit of faction that keeps the masses confused & obedient. It stiffles individualism in every way imaginable from top to bottom. Which breeds corruption. How else could you possibly explain the systemic corruption in politics that we collectively have come to accept? This corrupt farce needs to be dismantled. This system needs to be burned to the ground and the first candidate who stands upon that platform will have my full support.

 

These grass root candidates and outsiders are long standing political insiders who have done nothing except successfully package and sell themselves as such. The only positive I see being born out of these grass roots candidates are that they are setting the stage for true independents who can exact change and restore order. With any luck, who will break the structure up.

 

 

"I'll give you a taste, but it will never come close to the rage built up inside of me, fist in the air in the land of hypocrisy"

 

Great post, but it sounds identical to the reasons I support Dr. Paul.

 

Essentially, his platform WOULD dismantle the system. Of course he can't present it that way, they're already trying to make him out to be a kook, imagine if he 'stepped it up' a notch?

 

The only way we're going to get real change in this country is if the people want it: that's why I am so optimistic about the success Ron Paul has had. It's the people who stand behind him that are truly impressive.

 

Think about it: Dr. Paul wants to abolish the Fed. Sit back and let that sink in..

 

Honest money.

 

He had me at hello, with that one.

 

Abolishing the Income tax would only bring the revenue coming into government back to the level of 10 years ago. THAT is revealing.

 

With that said, I look at getting back to an honest money system as the number one issue.

 

Would he be able to accomplish this as President? Of course not. But if the people WANTED it, and understood the true nature of things, we'd be well on our way.

 

That's why I donate so much to Dr. Paul: for Secret Service Protection..