Miller4Prez66 545 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 The idea of trading Oladipo makes me want to puke, it comes down to Rob believing in one of these guys being the franchise changer we need. Anyone is expandable if that is what we're getting. I just don't think these guys are that, which stinks because before the NCAA season we were convinced Wiggins was the next great NBA star with Jabari not that far off. They're good, but not the rare game changers we hoped for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Optimist Prime 197 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 Wade for the Heat's first championship. You are moving the goalposts here. If a player is leading his team to a championship then he is probably in the discussion for one of the games greats. You could also make a case for Dirk since his game is almost entirely perimeter oriented. Pierce was the Finals MVP for Boston, though KG was just as important to that team as seen by what happened after his injury the following year. But those two were definitely 1a and 1b on that team. Pierce is not an all time great. Not even top five for his position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NittanyBuc 757 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 Pierce was the Finals MVP for Boston, though KG was just as important to that team as seen by what happened after his injury the following year. But those two were definitely 1a and 1b on that team. Pierce is not an all time great. Not even top five for his position. You don't think Pierce is HoF? Obviously not first ballot, but... It's close, imo, but I ultimately think he gets in. Then again, I suppose your definition of "all-time great" is a key factor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KandiKane 136 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 You don't think Pierce is HoF? Obviously not first ballot, but... It's close, imo, but I ultimately think he gets in. Then again, I suppose your definition of "all-time great" is a key factor. He is an all-time flopper/actor. Would rival the FIFA World Cup with his skills in diving. He is a rat and I hope he never gets HoF status. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the notorious S.A.C. 89 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 He is an all-time flopper/actor. Would rival the FIFA World Cup with his skills in diving. He is a rat and I hope he never gets HoF status. Reggie Miller flopped his way to the hog too... Nobody likes him unless he is on your team. Even then I'm not sure you like him. Plus the dude is just butt ugly! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KandiKane 136 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 Reggie Miller flopped his way to the hog too... Nobody likes him unless he is on your team. Even then I'm not sure you like him. Plus the dude is just butt ugly! We could make a Hall of Flop. Add Manu's name to that list. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,491 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 This thread man... So glad we're going to have new prospects to argue over after tonight... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KandiKane 136 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 This thread man... So glad we're going to have new prospects to argue over after tonight... Talking about HoF. This thread has to join the likes of the All in for Chris Paul thread in HoF for this board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 So many pages in one night! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 The idea of trading Oladipo makes me want to puke, it comes down to Rob believing in one of these guys being the franchise changer we need. Anyone is expandable if that is what we're getting. I just don't think these guys are that, which stinks because before the NCAA season we were convinced Wiggins was the next great NBA star with Jabari not that far off. They're good, but not the rare game changers we hoped for. I agree. The only guy I would do 4,12, and AA for is a 100% healthy Embiid. Unfortunately that guy doesn't exist anymore. Wiggins and Parker may become Pippen and Carmelo, but right now neither is worth what Cleveland is asking for. Draft Vonleh or swing for the fences with Embiid at #4 and use AA and other assets and eat a contract to try to get another pick on the 7-9 range and then take the best shooter and PG on the board with those picks. We don't have to have one superstar to make this thing go, and we certainly don't need to give up all assets for guys who haven't even proven that they will be superstars. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ball junkie 277 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 To add to the overnight Wiggins discussion....Pelton flat out has an article titled "Wiggins is rated to 'High' "....Here's the meat of the article: In particular, Wiggins failed to showcase the elite ability to create his own shot that is a requisite for superstardom. He finished 25.5 percent of the Jayhawks' plays while on the court, per KenPom.com, as compared with 31.8 percent for Parker at Duke. As freshmen, James Harden and Carmelo Anthony finished approximately 28 percent of their team's possessions, and Kevin Durant was at 31.6 percent. Wiggins' mark is more similar to Luol Deng, who had a 24.0 percent usage rate. If Wiggins didn't play like a star at Kansas, why is he still in the mix for the No. 1 pick? Credit or blame, depending on your perspective, goes to the lingering effect of his pre-college expectations. By comparison with some of his predecessors atop the recruiting rankings, Wiggins had a great freshman season. Shabazz Muhammad, the No. 1 recruit in 2012, was plagued by off-court controversy and showed few skills besides the ability to create his own shot. Harrison Barnes, who topped recruiting rankings in 2010, had an underwhelming career at North Carolina, much like Wiggins' season at Kansas. And Austin Rivers, ranked atop the 2011 class by some recruiting services, was inefficient and inconsistent in his lone campaign at Duke. Despite their lack of college production, Barnes (No. 7 in 2012), Rivers (No. 10 in 2012) and Muhammad (No. 14 in 2013) all ended up being selected in the lottery. With a few exceptions, the NBA provides a soft landing for top prospects who struggle in college. Over the past decades, just two consensus top-three recruits in their class as ranked by RSCIhoops.com have slipped out of the first round: Richard Hendrix and Josh McRoberts. In general, prep recruiting rankings explain about half as much of the variation in where players are picked as their WARP projections (based on college performance and age) despite adding nothing to the projections when determining a player's actual value (measured by WARP) in the NBA. Said more plainly, teams put too much value on how prospects rated entering college. It's too early to tell whether Barnes, Muhammad and Rivers will be good draft picks, but so far they have performed in the NBA much as they did in college. The good news for whatever team drafts Wiggins on Thursday night is that his future is no more certain now, at age 19, than it was a year ago. The trendy comparison for Wiggins is Indiana Pacers forward Paul George, who averaged 14.3 points and 6.2 rebounds as a freshman against WAC competition. At that point, nobody would have pegged George as a future NBA All-Star. Since then, George has maxed out his development, and Wiggins can be a superstar if he does the same. Statistical analysis also inevitably does Wiggins a disservice because his greatest strength, one-on-one perimeter defense, isn't reflected in the box score. Teams drafting in the top three picks have surely worked to gather more data to evaluate Wiggins' defensive potential. Those caveats aside, the most likely outcome for Wiggins at this point looks more like quality role player than star. That would concern me if my team were drafting him with the No. 1 pick, as our ESPN Insider NBA Front Office decided to do on behalf of the Cleveland Cavaliers after Embiid's injury. Most worrisome to me is the inevitable hype that will follow Wiggins' selection. If Wiggins has Deng's career, which includes a pair of All-Star selections, that shouldn't be seen as a disappointment. But it will be if fans believe they're getting a historically great talent. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11132747/kansas-jayhawks-shooting-guard-andrew-wiggins-rated-too-high-nba-draft Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KandiKane 136 Report post Posted June 26, 2014 To add to the overnight Wiggins discussion....Pelton flat out has an article titled "Wiggins is rated to 'High' "....Here's the meat of the article: In particular, Wiggins failed to showcase the elite ability to create his own shot that is a requisite for superstardom. He finished 25.5 percent of the Jayhawks' plays while on the court, per KenPom.com, as compared with 31.8 percent for Parker at Duke. As freshmen, James Harden and Carmelo Anthony finished approximately 28 percent of their team's possessions, and Kevin Durant was at 31.6 percent. Wiggins' mark is more similar to Luol Deng, who had a 24.0 percent usage rate. If Wiggins didn't play like a star at Kansas, why is he still in the mix for the No. 1 pick? Credit or blame, depending on your perspective, goes to the lingering effect of his pre-college expectations. By comparison with some of his predecessors atop the recruiting rankings, Wiggins had a great freshman season. Shabazz Muhammad, the No. 1 recruit in 2012, was plagued by off-court controversy and showed few skills besides the ability to create his own shot. Harrison Barnes, who topped recruiting rankings in 2010, had an underwhelming career at North Carolina, much like Wiggins' season at Kansas. And Austin Rivers, ranked atop the 2011 class by some recruiting services, was inefficient and inconsistent in his lone campaign at Duke. Despite their lack of college production, Barnes (No. 7 in 2012), Rivers (No. 10 in 2012) and Muhammad (No. 14 in 2013) all ended up being selected in the lottery. With a few exceptions, the NBA provides a soft landing for top prospects who struggle in college. Over the past decades, just two consensus top-three recruits in their class as ranked by RSCIhoops.com have slipped out of the first round: Richard Hendrix and Josh McRoberts. In general, prep recruiting rankings explain about half as much of the variation in where players are picked as their WARP projections (based on college performance and age) despite adding nothing to the projections when determining a player's actual value (measured by WARP) in the NBA. Said more plainly, teams put too much value on how prospects rated entering college. It's too early to tell whether Barnes, Muhammad and Rivers will be good draft picks, but so far they have performed in the NBA much as they did in college. The good news for whatever team drafts Wiggins on Thursday night is that his future is no more certain now, at age 19, than it was a year ago. The trendy comparison for Wiggins is Indiana Pacers forward Paul George, who averaged 14.3 points and 6.2 rebounds as a freshman against WAC competition. At that point, nobody would have pegged George as a future NBA All-Star. Since then, George has maxed out his development, and Wiggins can be a superstar if he does the same. Statistical analysis also inevitably does Wiggins a disservice because his greatest strength, one-on-one perimeter defense, isn't reflected in the box score. Teams drafting in the top three picks have surely worked to gather more data to evaluate Wiggins' defensive potential. Those caveats aside, the most likely outcome for Wiggins at this point looks more like quality role player than star. That would concern me if my team were drafting him with the No. 1 pick, as our ESPN Insider NBA Front Office decided to do on behalf of the Cleveland Cavaliers after Embiid's injury. Most worrisome to me is the inevitable hype that will follow Wiggins' selection. If Wiggins has Deng's career, which includes a pair of All-Star selections, that shouldn't be seen as a disappointment. But it will be if fans believe they're getting a historically great talent. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11132747/kansas-jayhawks-shooting-guard-andrew-wiggins-rated-too-high-nba-draft Good article. I think Pelton has it right. One of the reasons why I hope the rumors of our offer to the Cavs is not true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
