MagicFanInNevada 51 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Are you aware that Smart worked out twice for the Magic and they did not go as well as expected? Dude Henny and the Magic are so secretive that I wouldn't even believe that. If it's true I'd be shocked that the Magic even leaked those reports but they're known to not talk about anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
magicblue 315 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Are you aware that Smart worked out twice for the Magic and they did not go as well as expected? Catman, you can't be serious? Are we really supposed to believe everything we're hearing about Smart's visits? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ML6 520 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Guys who move up draft boards primarily due to measurables are scary. Vonleh is not a great athlete, doesn't seem to have great awareness (yet), and and makes Kendrick Perkins look like Hakeem in the post (currently). Could he be good? Sure, he's got a lot of time to get better. But let's not act like this guy is a sure thing because he has big hands, has flashed a jump shot, and some extraordinarily lofty comparisons have been made. I'm going to coin a new term -- it's called "Junkie-ing". This is when you take the word of others as fact and tend not to form your own opinions. Example: "Man, Chad Ford said Darko is a can't miss prospect! I don't feel like watching much tape though, I think I'll just settle for Junkie-ing this one and take his word for it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Catman, you can't be serious? Are we really supposed to believe everything we're hearing about Smart's visits? You guys have short term memories. It was pretty well documented how Oladipo blew away the Magic last year before the draft happened. No one was surprised we drafted him. And yeah Im serious. There is zero reason to smokescreen Smart. He is a projected pick at 7, not 2 or 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Catman 380 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Guys who move up draft boards primarily due to measurables are scary. Vonleh is not a great athlete, doesn't seem to have great awareness (yet), and and makes Kendrick Perkins look like Hakeem in the post (currently). Could he be good? Sure, he's got a lot of time to get better. But let's not act like this guy is a sure thing because he has big hands, has flashed a jump shot, and some extraordinarily lofty comparisons have been made. I'm going to coin a new term -- it's called "Junkie-ing". This is when you take the word of others as fact and tend not to form your own opinions. Example: "Man, Chad Ford said Darko is a can't miss prospect! I don't feel like watching much tape though, I think I'll just settle for Junkie-ing this one and take his word for it." LOL. You are on fire. He has done more than flash a jump shot though. He has a really good stroke. I personally think he is the BPA at 4 for the Magic, and will end up being a great pick. But I formed that opinion through watching games and not via what Chad Ford says. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Vonleh and Nich have similar measurements, but if you look at the two, Noah appears much bigger. He actually bangs inside, and is a pretty underrated rebounder. His positioning in off-ball defense and general bball IQ concern me tho. I think when he starts to really fill out and develop his outside shot, he could be a great fit beside Vucevic. I don't know if Noah appears much bigger since I don't have a side by side comparison of the two. He looks bigger than some of the shorter college players. I do think he'll be a better shotblocker but who knows by how much. Nicholson has shown signs of a being a good rebounder in the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Vonleh has plenty of film if you want to see his defense outside. One thing people post that probably never played basketball is when they see him sag off guys and tempt them to shoot. They do not understand that he was told to do that. Im not saying you, but I have read comments on some of his videos about that. They act like he is not closing out the shooter, and it's cringey. Randle is more - 'what you see is what you get' than Vonleh. Does not have the measurables. Also has a foot that will require surgery at some point. I see Vonleh as a top 5 pick, Randle as a top 8-9. Embiid has a stress fracture. So I don't see the Magic taking him. I have played enough ball beyond high school to become gainfully employed at a basketball academy outside Charlotte, I am firmly entrenched in the game so I don't know where you were going with the comment; that being said his movement outside of the paint does not impress me. He did fine this season on defense as a whole, but just OK outside the paint in particular (but no better than Randle). His tendency (or apparent lack thereof) to close out on shooters does not register in my assessment of him...at worst that's merely a conditioning issue. I am looking at more important factors like his footwork and hip plane relative to movement. Neither of these are nearly as effective with Vonleh as Randle, once again for comparison purposes. I get it, you feel Vonleh is a better prospect than Randle. I can see where you come from (shooting form is good and he is longer), but I still do not agree at this point. Randle is only 'what you see is what you get' because he actually performs against better opponents and multiple defenders at that while being fully scrutinized by many since he was in high school...not because he is an Emeka Okafor that has peaked. Vonleh's output actually regressed as the season went on and he did not play well against good teams save for one midseason tilt against Michigan State and later against Wisconsin-both losses. Randle is only a few(edit 8) months older than Vonleh and far more skilled with a better body to come in and make an impact. Why is Vonleh poised for growth but not Randle? As far as the foot surgery thing goes, I don't get the impression its a big deal-or that he actually needs it anyway. Even if he does it would benefit us as it may make him attainable with some moves. That being said, Randle was the iron man this year among the top prospects, and Vonleh was actually the one suffering from a foot injury. They both are going to be very good players in this league, but it will take Vonleh a couple years to make an impact. Randle will probably come close to putting up double doubles from the start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Kevin Durant? Yeah and that might be possible if the trend continues but OKC is poised with their youth to take over the Spurs pending on what Duncan and Heat's big three do. Don't know why he would leave in that case. I don't think he's the type who would sign anywhere else. His loyality is rare these days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nyce_1 311 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 If Vonleh showed signs of having good court vision/awareness or a willingness to pass, I'd be more on board for him, but I haven't seen much of that form what I've seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Few things are more irritating than when someone expresses their opinion and then follows it up with the word sorry, as if that's somehow the end of the discussion and they feel bad about it. It's so damn condescending. I did not intend it to be condescending, perhaps its a grammatical weakness of mine that doesn't translate well to a forum...I don't think it would seem that way if we were talking face to face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ML6 520 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 He has done more than flash a jump shot though. He has a really good stroke. I personally think he is the BPA at 4 for the Magic, and will end up being a great pick. No disagreement with the shooting. If we're going to describe one quality to get excited about in this guy, it's his shooting potential for his position. I might be alone in this, but what I tend to value most when watching a prospect is his ability to make smart plays. I primarily try to look at whether a guy has the potential to be a smart player with a high bball IQ who routinely makes plays that benefit the team. That quality has staying power in the league and I'm just not sure I see that with Vonleh yet. Likewise (and I know I'm alone with this weird assessment), clumsiness and lack of fluidity/grace seem to be poor projections. Vonleh, at this point in time, is undoubtedly clumsy in the post and isn't sure what to do quite yet. With time he'll improve, but his rawness and what I see as a potential lack of upside (due to a lack of elite athleticism) prevent me from getting too excited about him as a prospect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted June 20, 2014 Not sure I buy the Kings and Hornets passing on Gordon, because arguably both teams need to upgrade the PF position. The Kings already have Gay and Williams for SF, so they have no need to add another; and the Bobcats already have Henderson to start at SG and could acquire a backup SG at #24 or in the second round. Also, I don't think (or at least I hope) we will take Embiid. Our main need isn't another center, especially an injury prone one. I'd rather see us draft Randle or Smart at #4 than go with Embiid. Charlotte is in the market for shooters, actually has plenty of front court help...and are really high on Zeller. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
