2014 Draft Thread

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Did I speak of him like he was Kevin Martin? I said he can't guard anybody and I stand by that

 

So basically Kevin Martin.

 

he'd get torched by any top 10 SF and in my opinion he'd get torched by Blake Griffin, Zach Randolph, Josh Smith and any good offensive 4 (not that those guys are particularly good offensively per say they just offer match up problems). Carmelo Anthony's offense offsets his defense but I bet Knicks fans sure wish Melo was a much better defensive player.

 

Anthony Davis was probably the best defensive prospect since Dwight Howard and he was below average to bad on defense his rookie season. All but a handful of college players would struggle to defend anyone in the NBA, let alone top NBA talent. Parker's demonstrated good shotblocking instincts and has the mass to be an interior defender so maybe he could be okay on defense one day, I'm not seeing Anthony Bennett 2.0 out there. And no, Carmelo Anthony's offense has never offset his defense; he's been a relative net zero his entire career because he does literally nothing else aside from scoring at slightly above-average efficiency. When I say offensive talents surpasses defense weaknesses, I mean someone like Dirk.

 

I didn't mention Wiggins because nobody was talking bout Wiggins but yes Wiggins was dissapointing sure. Then again nobody was talking about how average Marcus Smart looked in his first few games before he went and dropped near 40 on a ranked team. And now people are acting like he's a can't miss prospect again. Wiggins showed up against Duke and was a big reason why they won that game so honestly I couldnt care less if he was average against a team with no NBA talent in a game his team was easily going to win.

 

Marcus Smart was jacking up and making shots he typically doesn't make. Impressive but with a caveat. And Kansas is going to win all but a few games because that team is stacked, if anything a game against a team with no NBA talent should have been a showcase for Wiggins to demonstrate that he can actually handle and create his own shot. He didn't do any of that last night.

 

FYI LeBron had 13 points the other night also against... (i want to say Milwaukee but I don't remember) but I'm sure nobody said "damn LeBron really didn't take that opportunity to drop 40 points" since the Heat won.

 

I think it's been established by now that Wiggins is not a LeBron level prospect.

 

 

I'm not picking on Wiggins to be an ass. As you saw by how much I trashed McLemore last year, I'm not a fan of top-prospect wing players who aren't good at breaking down their man and/or creating their own shot. Those type of players do not become stars in the NBA. I'll forever be reticent of Wiggins unless he shows that he can do that. Parker might suck on defense now, but I'll take that given the absurd potential he's shown on offense.

[Murphy13 185]

Parker has a well developed offensive game, and it will translate to the NBA. But his obvious limitations are going to hinder this potential you speak of. He's a 'can't miss' type player instead of a 'potential cornerstone' player like Wiggins, Randle, and maybe Exum (but I am speculating off what I've heard, haven't seen a body of work to compare). I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy with him if we got the 4th pick or something, but he isn't even the most dynamic scorer on his team (Rodney Hood). Jabari Parker reminds me almost exclusively of Shareef Abdur-Rahim...which is a favorable comp. He was good, even an allstar. If Jabari can stay healthy I think a similar trajectory is reasonable. Wiggins and Randle have potential to be something better though.

[ML6 520]

I literally cannot believe some of the things I've been reading on this board recently.

[BN 44]

I literally cannot believe some of the things I've been reading on this board recently.

 

So basically your avatar.

[CTMagicUK 1,491]

So basically Kevin Martin.

 

 

 

Anthony Davis was probably the best defensive prospect since Dwight Howard and he was below average to bad on defense his rookie season. All but a handful of college players would struggle to defend anyone in the NBA, let alone top NBA talent. Parker's demonstrated good shotblocking instincts and has the mass to be an interior defender so maybe he could be okay on defense one day, I'm not seeing Anthony Bennett 2.0 out there. And no, Carmelo Anthony's offense has never offset his defense; he's been a relative net zero his entire career because he does literally nothing else aside from scoring at slightly above-average efficiency. When I say offensive talents surpasses defense weaknesses, I mean someone like Dirk.

 

 

 

Marcus Smart was jacking up and making shots he typically doesn't make. Impressive but with a caveat. And Kansas is going to win all but a few games because that team is stacked, if anything a game against a team with no NBA talent should have been a showcase for Wiggins to demonstrate that he can actually handle and create his own shot. He didn't do any of that last night.

 

 

 

I think it's been established by now that Wiggins is not a LeBron level prospect.

 

 

I'm not picking on Wiggins to be an ass. As you saw by how much I trashed McLemore last year, I'm not a fan of top-prospect wing players who aren't good at breaking down their man and/or creating their own shot. Those type of players do not become stars in the NBA. I'll forever be reticent of Wiggins unless he shows that he can do that. Parker might suck on defense now, but I'll take that given the absurd potential he's shown on offense.

 

Describing Anthony as a "net zero" is ludicrous since it implies that Anthony has no positive impact on a game which in turn suggests the Knicks would have been just as good last year as they were, without Anthony which is just not true in my opinion.

 

You clearly missed the point with the LeBron comment, it wasn't that Wiggins was a LeBron level prospect, it was that in a game that is going to be won easily by the far superior team it doesn't matter. Some players put up stupid scoring numbers in poor college divisions and never see an NBA floor so why should it matter if a good player scores a lot against a bad team in a game where he's just not needed. If Wiggins doesn't show up against a ranked team you'll hear me sounding the alarm but until then I don't see that as an issue. That's why I brought up Smart because it says more about him that he showed up when needed in a big game than it does that he let his team mates do the scoring in an easy win.

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Describing Anthony as a "net zero" is ludicrous since it implies that Anthony has no positive impact on a game which in turn suggests the Knicks would have been just as good last year as they were, without Anthony which is just not true in my opinion.

 

You clearly missed the point with the LeBron comment, it wasn't that Wiggins was a LeBron level prospect, it was that in a game that is going to be won easily by the far superior team it doesn't matter. Some players put up stupid scoring numbers in poor college divisions and never see an NBA floor so why should it matter if a good player scores a lot against a bad team in a game where he's just not needed. If Wiggins doesn't show up against a ranked team you'll hear me sounding the alarm but until then I don't see that as an issue. That's why I brought up Smart because it says more about him that he showed up when needed in a big game than it does that he let his team mates do the scoring in an easy win.

 

Relative net zero I said, it's been firmly established by now that Carmelo Anthony does not really help a team win games despite putting up gaudy stats.

 

And I didn't miss your point on the LeBron comment, it wasn't useful to begin with. We all know what LeBron can do so an 11 point game out of him means nothing. Comparatively there remains a lot to be seen about Wiggins who so far has looked like DeMar Derozan with more range. Can he handle, can he create from outside? Moreover, I mostly ignore team performances in college basketball and almost exclusively focus on how individual players handle particular matchups and game scenarios. A few weeks back you and 4thewin were wondering why I said it wouldn't be surprising to see some 12-13 point games out of Wiggins. Well, here you go. As a positive, Wiggins' numbers look alright all things considered despite the fact that he seems completely disinterested out there. It's been written about him that he'll coast around and not give a **** for a while and then have a huge game to prove all doubters wrong. Maybe he's doing that here but I'm not sure I like that attitude.

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

dp

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Relative net zero I said, it's been firmly established by now that Carmelo Anthony does not really help a team win games despite putting up gaudy stats.

 

It has?

 

He was in the top ten for EWA last season (estimated number of wins a player adds to a team’s season total above what a 'replacement player' would produce) and is on pace to end up in the top ten here again as well.

 

He also had the highest +/- for the Nicks last season as well.

 

While they were better defensively with him off the court, they were worse offensively without him and the difference again is in his favor as the increase defensively is not as large as the drop off on the offensive end ( 6.2 difference Off to Def when on the court versus a 3.2 difference when off the court).

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,033]

Without Melo the Knicks would've probably missed the playoffs

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

EWA still uses PER in its calculation and overrates volume scorers (according to EWA Al Jefferson was about as valuable as Tim Duncan last season). Wins Produced indicates Carmelo was the 8th most productive player on the Knicks last season in what was by far his best season as a pro, then again a bunch of those Knick guys had career years shooting the ball from three. However I think it says it all right now how the Knicks are at the bottom of their division with Tyson Chandler (their actual best player) injured.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

Wins produced is highly dependent on efficiency, and overall, that's a pretty important factor in how good a player is, however, looking directly at their impact on and off the court can tell you how the team was impacted by their presence (or lack there of), which is why I shared those numbers.

 

Inefficient as he may be, the Nicks had a greater differential between offensive and defensive ratings with 'Melo on the court versus off.

 

Is he an efficient scorer? Nope, and his wins produced bare that out. Is he a defensive presence on the court? Not particularly. Are the Nicks better with him on the floor? Absolutely (and apparently by a 3 point margin).

 

But man, imagine if he was a little more careful with his shot selection and spent some time working on defense.

[The Neighborhood Bully 266]

I was excited to get my first look at Noah Vonleh last night after he averaged a double double his first four games. He went off for 0 points, 4 turnovers, and 4 fouls in 10 scintillating minutes of action. The game was almost unwatchable with 36 combined turnovers and 40% shooting.