The Official VC to Orlando thread. ~merged~

[Scarred for Life 0]

Looks like Vince isnt coming here after all... Time to rip the hairs out of my armpits.

[ThefutureGM 0]

quote:

Originally posted by fan for too long:

One thing that has not been mentioned is that Vince has already worked with Brian Hill as he was an assistant coach with New Jersey when Vince was brought there. So if he still wants to come here, he will know what he is getting into with the coach we have. Hopefully that is a positive aspect of trading for him.

 

Great Point!!!!!!! Very good call and big props to "fan for too long" He is dead on. Like I have been saying since starting this thread. The Magic have an offer on the table and it all depends on the NETS right now.

[Mr Charisma 0]

quote:

Originally posted by fan for too long:

One thing that has not been mentioned is that Vince has already worked with Brian Hill as he was an assistant coach with New Jersey when Vince was brought there. So if he still wants to come here, he will know what he is getting into with the coach we have. Hopefully that is a positive aspect of trading for him.

Don't know that I agree with the thought that he knows what he is getting in to.

 

When Brian was an assistant for the Magic prior to his 1st head-coaching stint here, the players all liked him and thought he would be fine.

 

Why?

 

Because Brian understands roles. As an assistant, he controlled his temperment, making sure not to step on the toes of the head coach.

 

I'm not sure VC has seen the personna of Brian Hill, head coach.

[fan for too long 16]

This is true Mr. Charisma. I had an optimistic moment, lol.

[bhnole 153]

quote:

Originally posted by ThefutureGM:

quote:

Originally posted by fan for too long:

One thing that has not been mentioned is that Vince has already worked with Brian Hill as he was an assistant coach with New Jersey when Vince was brought there. So if he still wants to come here, he will know what he is getting into with the coach we have. Hopefully that is a positive aspect of trading for him.

 

Great Point!!!!!!! Very good call and big props to "fan for too long" He is dead on. Like I have been saying since starting this thread. The Magic have an offer on the table and it all depends on the NETS right now.

 

I hope your right, want to use my new sig in a few days ;-)

 

 

^^^^^ Be a nice to use it now instead of waiting til the summer ^^^^

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by The Ghost of John Gabriel:

1) I do not want to see J.J. Redick traded. Not because I see him as a future star, but because I see him as a great complimentary player to Dwight and Darko.

 

The fact he has the offensive ability to have plays run for him and is a threat to drop 20-30 on any given night simply makes him a great role player, not a potential star IMO.

 

That's not to say he couldn't develop into a consistent 20+ scorer in this league ala Micheal Redd or a less athletic Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton, or Reggie Miller. But, worst case, he's shown me he'll be a solid role player capable of big nights, and that's what good, championship caliber role players provide.

 

Unlike 90% of college "scorers", Redick shows the mentality to accept a role, and play within not only the offense, but an offense focused around other players.

 

I truly believe Redick is capable of excelling in a role as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or even 5th offensive option on the floor. That's an indication of a true team player and a very unique quality.

 

2) The idea of adding Vince AND keeping Grant Hill is very intriguing. I believe the two would compliment each other extremely well even if for only a maximum of 1 2/5 seasons. The 2 are interchangable defensively, Hill would draw the toughest matchup, protecting the offensive minded VC. In addition, VC would draw the better defender, making life easier on the offensive end for the aging Hill.

 

3) IF there is any merit to these talks, I would certainly rather give up JJ than Darko, I would rather give up JJ than Ariza (although it's very close), but I'm not sure I would rather give up JJ to get VC now. I wouldn't complain, but I would have mixed feelings. I would understand, but part of me wouldn't like it.

 

4) Is a bird in the hand worth KG in the bush???

IMO, NO!!! Realistically, yes. If KG leaves Minnesota, LA appears a far more likely destination, and I'm not sure Otis would even make a serious run at KG. Although, I sure would!!!

 

5) The million dollar question is how good can this team be this season with VC? Ei, is it really worth making the move now?

 

If VC to Orlando is inevitable as I believe, the answer is a resounding YES!!!

 

VC's presence would energize this team. Without losing Hill, the Magic become very dangerous in the Eastern Conference playoffs THIS SEASON. He's the one on one player and go to scorer this team lacks. His presence opens up offense for EVERY other player on the floor and likely leads to this team running more.

 

If the Magic add VC this season and keep Hill, it would be very disappointing if this team doesn't get into the 2nd round and gives them the capability of beating any team in the East. I'm not making bold predictions and I'm not ready to call us a contender. I'm simply saying this team becomes very dangerous. Of course, this assumes G. Hill is healthy.

 

IMHO, a healthy Richard Jefferson is better for the long term plans of this organization. But, at this point, I'm not sure Jefferson has a healthier 4-5 years in front of him than VC.

 

I'd like us to keep JJ as well, but I don't know if the Nets would do the trade with just Hedo and a draft pick before the deadline.

 

I also agree that you give JJ up before Ariza or Darko - I don't do the deal if Darko or Ariza has to be included. I could give up JJ, but of course I'd rather keep him.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicmaninMiami:

Your first point is entirely invalid. Should you trade FOR Vince you have to match contracts should you trade for cap space your only need to match the player you are looking to move. You do not have to give up multiple players. Its not the same at all. HUGE difference. Might even get back a pick.

 

In your scenario, we hypothetically trade, hmmm let's say Hedo, so that we can clear cap space enough to sign Vince in the offseason. That's if Vince is willing to sign a 12 million dollar contract, essentially giving up 4 million (not to mention 10% of his agents fee). If he wants to make 16 million to play in Orlando, we must move even more to free up spac to sign him. Is there a team out there willing to trade 1-2 first round draft picks for Hedo straight up? I think not. Therefore, it would also be necessary to move another player or a package of players. Dooling for a first round pick anyone? Bogans? Diener? Regardless, my point was that if we are to sign Vince this summer it will still be necessary to trade 1-3 players to free up cap space (similar to the Clippers deal "D Strong, Maggette, Dooling for a pick" that is mentioned so frequently as a comparison). Look at what we gave up there. 2 Young and talented players along with a veteran big man. If we were forced to pull off an identical trade this summer to free up cap space, we would part with what players? What players would we feel comfortable parting with this summer that we couldn't just as easily part with now? Why would we wait until this summer to part with those players and risk losing our MLE to further beef up our bench?

quote:

Who is this wonder piece that will be able to be signed for an MLE?

I wasn't referring to signing Kevin Garnett with our MLE you meat head. But to not have 5 million dollars to solidify our bench when we could avoid losing it is crazy.

 

quote:

Originally posted by MagicmaninMiami:

Grant was worth the money if he hadn't been injured.

 

Speaking of conjecture. This is probably the most arbitrarily idiotic assumption I've ever read on this forum. What if the earth wasn't round? What if we didn't breathe oxygen? What if Germany would have won WWII? What if the Magic would've been able to keep Shaq in a Magic uniform all these years?

 

If you can't support your opinion with any shred of factual evidence, than there is no reason to enter into this discussion. Facts are, Grant has been paid 73.6 million+. Facts are, Grant has only played in 112 games while on the Magic roster. Facts are, every single Magic fan has a justifiable right to be upset with the Magic continuing to place blind faith & big dollars in Grant Hill's ability to stay healthy and play basketball games. Making a speculative statement based on what could have been only diminishes the credibility of your argument.

 

quote:

Originally posted by MagicmaninMiami:

And being a class organization does help putting a winning team on the floor. It helps with free agent signings.

 

How has it helped the Magic sign free agents during the last 7 years while all their dollars were tied up in a player on the disabled list?

 

 

Overall, it is my opinion that windows of opportunity rarely stay open for prolonged periods. When an opportunity presents itself, it is easy to speculate that the opportunity may still be available down the road. But, the ony way to ensure that the opportunity is realized is to act immediately. Obviously thought and planning should be utilized in determining if the opportunity is viable, but once that determination is made, you must act on your best judegement at that point. Otherwise the opportunity could pass and the window could close.

[ball junkie 277]

quote:

Originally posted by bhnole:

quote:

Originally posted by ThefutureGM:

quote:

Originally posted by fan for too long:

One thing that has not been mentioned is that Vince has already worked with Brian Hill as he was an assistant coach with New Jersey when Vince was brought there. So if he still wants to come here, he will know what he is getting into with the coach we have. Hopefully that is a positive aspect of trading for him.

 

Great Point!!!!!!! Very good call and big props to "fan for too long" He is dead on. Like I have been saying since starting this thread. The Magic have an offer on the table and it all depends on the NETS right now.

 

I hope your right, want to use my new sig in a few days ;-)

 

 

^^^^^ Be a nice to use it now instead of waiting til the summer ^^^^

 

 

Talk to me Bhnole! Now that's what I'm talking about!!

 

Bhnole, are you and I the only ones on the get Carter wagon "now" train?

 

Oh, I forgot! Bhnole, Smack and Junkie are all on the same wagon!! It's a miracle!!!

[fan for too long 16]

Bhnole and Junkie get me a ticket to that train. But it has to be inlcuded with the Farewell

Grant Party tickets. How much for a package deal?

[bhnole 153]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

 

 

Talk to me Bhnole! Now that's what I'm talking about!!

 

Bhnole, are you and I the only ones on the get Carter wagon "now" train?

 

Oh, I forgot! Bhnole, Smack and Junkie are all on the same wagon!! It's a miracle!!!

 

I am on it, but I believe we don't have to give up Ariza anymore to get it done. VC has let everyone know he wants to be here this summer, so Thorn is lucky to get anything at this point.

 

I could live with Hedo, JJ, Dooling, Garrity and Fran's rights.

 

Then we can use our MLE to bolster the front line some and get another back up swingman.

[Drain-O 369]

I have not read through all the merged pages but this from Schmitz earlier says it all,

 

"Magic GM Otis Smith said he has had no discussions with the New Jersey Nets about acquiring Vince Carter before Thursday's trade deadline. "Nope, haven't had any [talks with Nets]. I like our team. I like what we have," Smith said. Smith didn't rule out having a "busy" summer, however.

 

Otis is being very smart about this ala last year with Darko, Arroyo, and Ariza. To me he is basically saying to NJ if you want anything of value trade us Vince now. If you do not we will just sign him over the summer.

 

I say you get VC now let him play with Dwight. Let him think holy crap not only can I play at home but with the premier big man in the East. For those who say what if Vince left after the next couple months why would he. If he wants a legitimate chance of contending in the next few years he will play for the Magic. He has already made 100 + million dollars as a player through money and endorsements. At this point I would think contention and family would be his priorities. Now you never really know with any athlete but where there appears to be smoke there is probably fire.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

Sounds like Magic Confidential was a little jet lagged when he wrote this.

 

First - I don't feel like quoting everything, so I will try to paraphrase. He says that the Magic should not trade away pieces right now to sign VC, but then says that the Magic will need to trade away pieces to free up cap space in the offseason to clear room to sign both Darko and Vince. What's the difference? Does he really think that other teams will be wiling to trade for Garrity or Bo or Battie to help us clear room to dominate the league? Any team that trades with us so that we can clear cap space will want Hedo, JJ, Bogans, etc. These are the same players we are discussing right now.

 

Second - If we don't make a trade we stand to lose our MLE. That is going to be huge for us to put that final piece (a backup big man?) on our roster this summer.

 

Third - MC mentions that we may in fact be one of the teams that stands to rent VC this season if he decides he doesn't like playing for the Magic. That would be impossible if we extended him before the trade. Not to mention, I fear we run an even greater risk of losing his interest if he isn't brought in this year. Right now we are one of the poorr playing teams in the league. If we don't mix things up and we do continue down the same path we will miss the playoffs. How attractive an option do we become to Vince if we are just as bad as the NJ team he has just left?

 

Let me restate...If we trade for him right now, we maintian the rights to our MLE. We sharpen up our rotation right now with fewer players demanding paying time. We make the playoffs and possibly further with Vince playing a vital role in this season's turn around. We make a statement this season in a very weak Eastern Conference rather than waiting for all the other teams to recalculate their plan and possibly strenghten substantially. Ultimately, we send a clear message to everybody else that we mean business NOW!

 

I don't see us as a team renting Carter - the only way we rent Carter is if our Coach is an idiot - which is a real possibility - so as long as we are willing to fire Brian Hill if Carter is not happy - I think he stays.

 

I have another thought - I'd like us to keep JJ, but if we trade JJ, we should make any other team that gets JJ take Garrity as well - you want JJ you have to take Garrity. That would help me with the loss of JJ knowing that Garrity could not be put in the game by Brian Hill.