Anyone besides me starting to worry a bit?

[MagicFan4Life 0]

quote:

Originally posted by ravegoblin:

Guys, this debating over the skills of Rajon Rondo is kinda pointless. The proposed trade for Garnett includes Rondo as part of the package. So while this trade would give the Celtics a trio of all-star players, it leaves them without a starting point guard and they give away one of the best young up-and-coming big men in the league. If this trade goes through, they are still not championship caliber until they figure out the pg spot. They have a really thin bench too.

 

They wanted Rondo but Ainge held out, he will not include Rondo in the trade, I am on an internship in Boston for the summer so this is the talk of work today. Rondo is safe according to Ainge I guess.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by ravegoblin:

Guys, this debating over the skills of Rajon Rondo is kinda pointless. The proposed trade for Garnett includes Rondo as part of the package. So while this trade would give the Celtics a trio of all-star players, it leaves them without a starting point guard and they give away one of the best young up-and-coming big men in the league. If this trade goes through, they are still not championship caliber until they figure out the pg spot. They have a really thin bench too.

Apparently from what im reading Telfair is the one included in the package, not Rondo.

 

The last I read it goes something like this..

 

Boston Gets:

Garnett

 

Minnesota Gets:

Gerald Green

Sebastian Telfair

Al Jefferson

Theo Ratliff

 

and probably some draft picks.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by MagicFan4Life:

Gomez is being thrown into the mix now as well. So as of now it looks like jefferson, theo, telfair, green, gomez, and a 1st rounder. I am on lunch now but I will post a link when I get back if nobody has yet.

 

Throwing all their eggs and their into one basket, but it is a dam n good basket at this point, one that I feel can compete for a title for sure.

Yeah I read about Ryan Gomes. Man, they might as well trade the jersey of Larry Bird while there at it.

[MilitaryMagic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:

Lol, you guys gauding Boston as pulling an amazing "upset" of an offseason and lauding our own offseason are real jokesters.

 

Boston is morgaging their entire future to win a championship NOW. They're about to trade away a 21 year old that is on the verge of being one of the top big men in the game for a player that has about 3 years left at the top of his game.

 

Furthermore, if they DO get KG, big IF right there, then he's demanding a contract extension, capishe? That's extending his already INSANE contract. Boston, regardless of letting Pierce and Allen go, will have a single bloated contract of a player that will literally be in decline. So there goes a lot of your "future capspace" as a Celtic.

 

On top of that, what good does cap space really do you. Take us as case 1 - a ton of capspace got us a solid, borderline allstar player. A good chemistry player at that, but still, borderline allstar. How on earth does Boston even have a remote chance at replacing talents like Pierce and Allen with comprable talent in 3 years?

 

Straight up, you're implicitly bashing the Magic by overestimating Boston's changes. Boston will be good for a few years if they get KG, but it will take them at least a year to "put it all together" anyway. So they get a window for about 2 years for a championship before they have to start all over again.

 

Again, let me emphasize, they're trading a 21 year old double double for a 31 year old double double if the trade goes through. That simply does not help their cause for the "future". All it does is help their present by discarding their future.

 

Naturally, it's a *big* boost for the present.

 

[sARCASM] Once their 3 all stars magically learn how to play together and share the ball and play good defense, under the best coach in the Eastern Conf., they'll be on their way to a title before they even start showing wrinkles! [/sARCASM]

 

Good to see Boston is going for a championship while we're still developing our young core. Now we won't have to worry about Al Jeff and DWest for the next 10 years [=

 

I hear what you're saying Military and I agree to a degree. I would just rather have a sure thing contender now than wait to see if our future is bright. Every other team in the league has the opprotunity to have a bright future with a few moves also including the teams that are contenders now.

 

Look at this offseason for example. Numerous teams that were on the cusp of being league bottom feeders are now instant contenders with one or two moves.

 

There is just as much risk in waiting to see if our prospects develop as there is in making a move that puts the team in immediate contention with other issues to be addressed when they appear later.

 

All I know, is that one or two teams in the league have been capable of drafting and developing talent while also making trades-signings that mesh with the roster in place. All other teams are forced to adjust and compete through other means.

 

With the Magic drafting Fran while giving away a 1st round pick, Darko, Diener, G Hill and overpaying Shard, we have hampered our chances at competing with those elite teams for some time without making an immediate and drastic move that improves our team.

 

Agreed. If we didn't have an untradeable cornerstone (i.e. if we were in Boston's shoes), I'd make these moves. I'd rather see a championship now rather than later.

 

But, considering the cornerstone we are building with, we have at least 2 full runs left in us (at least one more after Rashard's contract is up). We should be a playoff team and be in contention for probably a decade or so. The Celts, with these moves, not so much...

 

Their problem is that their young core had already proven to *not* be good enough anyway, whereas our young core has already proven to be at least capable of sneaking into the playoffs.

 

Our problem is the reversal - we can't afford to take a risk for immediate contention because our young pieces are already starting to prove their worth. To trade pieces away to contend immediately would shortchange Dwight's future here in Orlando.

 

While Rashard doesn't make us elite next year, if Rashard can produce as he has the past 3 years, and if Dwight makes the next leap to being an MVP-type player, then we CAN be elite. Furthermore, the only player of importance to our future we've lost since Otis took over is Darko (and Rodney Stuckey, yea yea). So, after Rashard is gone, in theory we'll still have our core.

 

Boston's core is going out the window. They'll be in full rebuilding mode in 3 years... and KG will be sitting there rebuilding with them, just like he is in 'Sota.

 

I like what Boston is doing, but their moves aren't the types of moves that would work as well with our team - we're good enough not to have Top 5 draft picks to trade and our cornerstone is too good to trade realisticly.

[MagicFan4Life 0]

Good post military, makes sense. I am worried about Boston, I think they are going to be quite good if this happens. Something like this just was not in the cards for us though I do not think,

 

I do not want to play the waiting game any longer, but going into this offseason I did not see any combination of moves making me feel confident we would win it all, so I was willing to at least wait another year or two before I have that feeling going into the season. So this offseason did not go great but I still feel like we are improving and will be around for awhile, so Boston can throw everything at these next couple years, because this city really wants their team to be good, all the guys at my work look like 5 year olds on christmas morning running around today.

[D-BoFats 5]

SmackDaddy, there's no way we could've landed KG for anyone other than Dwight. You talk about us overrating our team? How about you overrating Darko? There's no way the T-Wolves would trade KG for mainly Darko, Ariza, Redick, and Nelson. An All-Star for 3 backups and a seemingly average point guard? Come on. You must not know about Al Jefferson. He put up very good stats last year, he's the same age as Dwight, and his post offense is already better than Dwight's.

 

Let's be realistic here. You think our management was going to NOT sign Rashard Lewis, keep Darko, and hope the T-Wolves would somehow accept our young players over Boston's better young players? It doesn't work that way. If we lived in a dream world, I might agree with you, but I personally like what Otis has done within the boundaries of realism.

[MilitaryMagic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

all this means is that the east is getting a whole lot tougher...it wont be the leastern conference for long.

 

also, if lebron & co. can make it to the finals, then a trio of pp, allen, and kg certainly can. and kg is known for being a team player. the chemistry will be fantastic on that team.

 

someone said earlier that the celtics dont have much money to continue to extend contracts in the future...the celtics are the most storied franchise in the history of the nba, by far. if they get put back on the bball map for even a couple years, they will have more money than they can spend on their team, and they will continue to make trades as necessary to make themselves continually competitive. so what i am saying is even if they dont retain the big three beyond the 3 or 4 years, the damage will already be done. boston will be a power house again and will be looking to add to their massive numbers of banners they already have. we need to beat them to the finish line. we need to make another move. i dont buy this 'we will be poised to win it all in 3 years'. where will lebron be in 3-4 years? who knows? all otis is telling me when he says that is that hes ok with mediocrity. why would you spend max money on a player just to not be looking for championships right away? go all out or go home. we have billionare owners. im sure if it means winning a championship, they will spend a little extra money. the magic brass need to understand that just making the playoffs and not going anywhere is mediocrity, and we arent ok with that.

 

i think it got lost in the shuffle and somewhat retorts military's points so i just threw it to the top of the deck again...

 

by the way, kg is the man in the league. he would be the leader of that team and he has a level head. they will pull it together before the allstar break.

 

I know you realize this, but I'll point it out anyway: The NBA isn't the MLB. Making money off your team doesn't guarantee you the opportunity to pull in elite talent. The salary cap rules all.

 

Garnett, if he fits into Boston's plan, will be *extended* off his current contract. His extension will be the richest in the NBA's history for now, and probably well into the future, since nobody else can even get a contract approaching his under the current CBA.

 

Who will they have to trade after they finish trading away all their best young pieces? If they really have to give up A-Jeff, Green, and a 1st rounder (or 2) for KG, and they already traded DWest and a top 5 pick for Allen, they won't have viable pieces to trade to replace talents like Pierce and Allen.

 

Honestly, I will have trouble being convinced that Boston can have a viable future after this quick win-now run is over.

 

Not that I don't envy their position... you're right about one thing... screw mediocrity...

 

But... we have Dwight Howard. If he can put up MVP numbers within the next 2-3 years, our core + Rashard is good enough to contend in any conference for championships.

[IamOtisSmith 0]

The Boston Deal doesnt scare me only because they have Doc Rivers still coaching. He will screw things up somehow...

[Murphy13 185]

quote:

Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

all this means is that the east is getting a whole lot tougher...it wont be the leastern conference for long.

 

also, if lebron & co. can make it to the finals, then a trio of pp, allen, and kg certainly can. and kg is known for being a team player. the chemistry will be fantastic on that team.

 

someone said earlier that the celtics dont have much money to continue to extend contracts in the future...the celtics are the most storied franchise in the history of the nba, by far. if they get put back on the bball map for even a couple years, they will have more money than they can spend on their team, and they will continue to make trades as necessary to make themselves continually competitive. so what i am saying is even if they dont retain the big three beyond the 3 or 4 years, the damage will already be done. boston will be a power house again and will be looking to add to their massive numbers of banners they already have. we need to beat them to the finish line. we need to make another move. i dont buy this 'we will be poised to win it all in 3 years'. where will lebron be in 3-4 years? who knows? all otis is telling me when he says that is that hes ok with mediocrity. why would you spend max money on a player just to not be looking for championships right away? go all out or go home. we have billionare owners. im sure if it means winning a championship, they will spend a little extra money. the magic brass need to understand that just making the playoffs and not going anywhere is mediocrity, and we arent ok with that.

 

i think it got lost in the shuffle and somewhat retorts military's points so i just threw it to the top of the deck again...

 

by the way, kg is the man in the league. he would be the leader of that team and he has a level head. they will pull it together before the allstar break.

 

I know you realize this, but I'll point it out anyway: The NBA isn't the MLB. Making money off your team doesn't guarantee you the opportunity to pull in elite talent. The salary cap rules all.

 

Garnett, if he fits into Boston's plan, will be *extended* off his current contract. His extension will be the richest in the NBA's history for now, and probably well into the future, since nobody else can even get a contract approaching his under the current CBA.

 

Who will they have to trade after they finish trading away all their best young pieces? If they really have to give up A-Jeff, Green, and a 1st rounder (or 2) for KG, and they already traded DWest and a top 5 pick for Allen, they won't have viable pieces to trade to replace talents like Pierce and Allen.

 

Honestly, I will have trouble being convinced that Boston can have a viable future after this quick win-now run is over.

 

Not that I don't envy their position... you're right about one thing... screw mediocrity...

 

But... we have Dwight Howard. If he can put up MVP numbers within the next 2-3 years, our core + Rashard is good enough to contend in any conference for championships.

 

in order to stay competitive they could unload an expiring paul pierce deal in two years to a contender much like the twolves are doing with kg. they could get atleast 1 top tier pick, the other teams best prospect(jefferson) and other role players or exp. deals. that alone would replenish a strong team. if they needed they could do that with ray allen as well. or just vice versa. talents like what they have could get you a lot on the market.

 

in addition, what i meant by them having ample money is that they will have no problem paying the luxury tax to retain talents. as long as you extend them before they become unrestricted, you can go completely over the cap. and they would be raking in so much money that the lux. tax will be nothing for them...

[Drain-O 369]

As a fan of the NBA this whole scenario has peaked my interest to say the least.

 

On paper you could argue they should be the best team in the East which would be remarkable considering they were the worst last year.

 

The one thing I do not understand is does Kevin Garnett really make them that much better especially if he wants a 5/125 million contract. If you were the Celtics and you already had 2 guys who could fill it up and demand the ball wouldn't you want a young future all-star to build around in case this whole thing blows up.

 

I remember watching Jefferson torch the Magic in their final game last year and I thought to myself this could be Dwight's main competition for the next 10 years in regards to big men. I then thought how did he get so good offensively this season. I then saw Clifford Ray and once again cursed the name of Brian Hill. I felt Knappy level anger that night.

 

I think it would make Boston a contender if they all get along and I really do not think the Magic would be contenders this year anyway. I do understand the frustration though because it seems every 2 or 3 seasons another Magic GM is cleaning up the mess of the previous guy. Rinse and repeat. It would just be nice for one or two seasons to say this year this team could win it all.

 

If Dwight continues to develop that day should be here sooner rather than later.

[MilitaryMagic 0]

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

quote:

Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

quote:

Originally posted by murphy13:

all this means is that the east is getting a whole lot tougher...it wont be the leastern conference for long.

 

also, if lebron & co. can make it to the finals, then a trio of pp, allen, and kg certainly can. and kg is known for being a team player. the chemistry will be fantastic on that team.

 

someone said earlier that the celtics dont have much money to continue to extend contracts in the future...the celtics are the most storied franchise in the history of the nba, by far. if they get put back on the bball map for even a couple years, they will have more money than they can spend on their team, and they will continue to make trades as necessary to make themselves continually competitive. so what i am saying is even if they dont retain the big three beyond the 3 or 4 years, the damage will already be done. boston will be a power house again and will be looking to add to their massive numbers of banners they already have. we need to beat them to the finish line. we need to make another move. i dont buy this 'we will be poised to win it all in 3 years'. where will lebron be in 3-4 years? who knows? all otis is telling me when he says that is that hes ok with mediocrity. why would you spend max money on a player just to not be looking for championships right away? go all out or go home. we have billionare owners. im sure if it means winning a championship, they will spend a little extra money. the magic brass need to understand that just making the playoffs and not going anywhere is mediocrity, and we arent ok with that.

 

i think it got lost in the shuffle and somewhat retorts military's points so i just threw it to the top of the deck again...

 

by the way, kg is the man in the league. he would be the leader of that team and he has a level head. they will pull it together before the allstar break.

 

I know you realize this, but I'll point it out anyway: The NBA isn't the MLB. Making money off your team doesn't guarantee you the opportunity to pull in elite talent. The salary cap rules all.

 

Garnett, if he fits into Boston's plan, will be *extended* off his current contract. His extension will be the richest in the NBA's history for now, and probably well into the future, since nobody else can even get a contract approaching his under the current CBA.

 

Who will they have to trade after they finish trading away all their best young pieces? If they really have to give up A-Jeff, Green, and a 1st rounder (or 2) for KG, and they already traded DWest and a top 5 pick for Allen, they won't have viable pieces to trade to replace talents like Pierce and Allen.

 

Honestly, I will have trouble being convinced that Boston can have a viable future after this quick win-now run is over.

 

Not that I don't envy their position... you're right about one thing... screw mediocrity...

 

But... we have Dwight Howard. If he can put up MVP numbers within the next 2-3 years, our core + Rashard is good enough to contend in any conference for championships.

 

in order to stay competitive they could unload an expiring paul pierce deal in two years to a contender much like the twolves are doing with kg. they could get atleast 1 top tier pick, the other teams best prospect(jefferson) and other role players or exp. deals. that alone would replenish a strong team. if they needed they could do that with ray allen as well. or just vice versa. talents like what they have could get you a lot on the market.

 

in addition, what i meant by them having ample money is that they will have no problem paying the luxury tax to retain talents. as long as you extend them before they become unrestricted, you can go completely over the cap. and they would be raking in so much money that the lux. tax will be nothing for them...

 

No man, why would they be trading Pierce or Allen if they're still effective?

 

In 3 years, they'll both be 34/35 and well past their primes. Teams aren't going to trade away a top tier pick and a good young talent for aging superstars.

 

Aging superstars sign for veteran minimums to play on teams like the Mavs and Spurs. They don't get traded in the last years of a monster contract to get back top tier youth.

 

What I'm saying is... Pierce and Allen in 3 years are untradeable under their current contracts, and won't be worth resigning to big contracts. The Celtics are going to be in a pretty rough spot when this happens... all they'll have is an aging KG making $30+ mil/yr after his extension.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by MilitaryMagic:

No man, why would they be trading Pierce or Allen if they're still effective?

 

In 3 years, they'll both be 34/35 and well past their primes. Teams aren't going to trade away a top tier pick and a good young talent for aging superstars.

 

Aging superstars sign for veteran minimums to play on teams like the Mavs and Spurs. They don't get traded in the last years of a monster contract to get back top tier youth.

 

What I'm saying is... Pierce and Allen in 3 years are untradeable under their current contracts, and won't be worth resigning to big contracts. The Celtics are going to be in a pretty rough spot when this happens... all they'll have is an aging KG making $30+ mil/yr after his extension.

 

Amen brother Military, those contracts are going to be anchors if that team doesn't win a title.

 

Check this out, this was in hoopshype.com from the Boston Herald.

 

One involved source said the final package will have the Celts sending Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a No. 1 pick to Minnesota to acquire Garnett.

 

Gomes and a #1 also? Wow that is one heck of a package. That gives Minny a 5 (Jefferson played some center last year) a 4, even more cap relief (Theo expires) and a #1. That Boston team better win a title cause they will literally be starting from scratch.

 

Edit: Check out some of the comments from the Boston fans. My favorite is this one "Two Words: Herschel Walker"

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/celtics/?p=117