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?4thewin

2017-2018 Official Season Discussion Thread

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Murphy13    166
1 hour ago, ?4thewin said:

 

It takes a special kind of person to lament a player's ability to hit open 3's as a negative.  I'd rather have a legit threat inside of 18 feet at the point than someone that's essentially a spot up volume 3 point shooter at the point; a point's JOB is to create for his teammates-not be a shooting guard.  If you want someone that does what he does inside and is a volume 3 point shooter then prepare to pay the max contract because there are only a handful of players that can do it and is no detraction to a 23 year old improving point guard drafted 10th.   

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HeHateMe    604

Hasn’t Payton always played well when there’s zero pressure, the season is over, and the game isn’t on the line? 

People acting surprised about his numbers in PHX when they’re getting blowout every night doesn’t make sense to me. He did the same thing here. 

What happened last year after the all-star break? Payton put up numbers. We still were getting blown out. 

He picks and chooses when he wants to play an engaged brand of basketball and all to often that’s when the season is already tanked. 

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ML6    249

You are right that there is no point in continuing the conversation.  We live in totally different realities and somehow see a totally different player despite the fact that we have watched the same games and have access to the same metrics.  For example, you quoting his 3 game averages as if that is meaningful.  We know he can put up empty stats; that is not news and has not, over the course of 4 years, helped his teams win.

As ?FTW aptly pointed out (and you paid no attention to due to your heightened understanding of basketball that the rest of us lack), we didn't trade Payton because he can't put up numbers on occasion.  We let him go because his skillset significantly limits his impact and the team's spacing, which will be a continued issue for years to come unless he experiences a drastic improvement in his shooting.  And this doesn't even mention his inability to defend other PGs. 

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Gordon MVP    281
51 minutes ago, ML6 said:

The use of the word "blind" indicates that there have been no facts, stats, or credible evidence presented.  Since that has been done ad nauseum, "blind" would better describe someone choosing to ignore that information. 

Exactly. It's as if the last 4 years didnt happen!

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Murphy13    166
5 minutes ago, Gordon MVP said:

Exactly. It's as if the last 4 years didnt happen!

That sums up our organization as a whole.  

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ML6    249
On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 3:18 PM, Bauncey Chillups said:

I guarantee when Payton has a random 22/7/8 game in March we'll see idiot basketball twitter commentary about how the Magic *****ed up.

You called it, except it only took a week.  And "idiot basketball twitter" apparently aptly describes some TBN posters.

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?4thewin    1,751
51 minutes ago, Murphy13 said:

It takes a special kind of person to lament a player's ability to hit open 3's as a negative.  I'd rather have a legit threat inside of 18 feet at the point than someone that's essentially a spot up volume 3 point shooter at the point; a point's JOB is to create for his teammates-not be a shooting guard.  If you want someone that does what he does inside and is a volume 3 point shooter then prepare to pay the max contract because there are only a handful of players that can do it and is no detraction to a 23 year old improving point guard drafted 10th.   

Payton's shooting doesn't matter except as a function of defensive geometry.  

Until he makes enough for defenders to care about him shooting it has no effective impact for him to shoot 28% or 40%

And it'd be one thing if he took every open three but he's taking 3 every 2 games.  Is 28 made threes over 47 games significantly different than 20 made threes over 47 games? 

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Great discussion and the bottom line is Payton is gone and we are searching for a new PG.  I personally think this has been our weakest link and  addressing this will make us a better team. ?4the win just described, in his previous post, due to his lack of shooting, why Payton did not work for us.  That was described as his weakness when we drafted him and it just never improved enough.  Here is hoping we get a PG that fits our system!!!

The following Fanpost article summarizes my thoughts on Payton and the trade:   "I'm sick that we couldn't get more for Payton...I understand the market dictates this but that just plain sucks! In the end though he was not motivated to play consistently or try on defense. If he does this on the right team in a system he can be an all-star, sadly he was never gonna be that here."

The Following link describes, hopefully, what our next PG will bring to the table

https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2018/2/7/16988132/what-do-you-look-for-in-a-point-guard

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1 hour ago, Originalticketholder said:

Great discussion and the bottom line is Payton is gone and we are searching for a new PG.  I personally think this has been our weakest link and  addressing this will make us a better team. ?4the win just described, in his previous post, due to his lack of shooting, why Payton did not work for us.  That was described as his weakness when we drafted him and it just never improved enough.  Here is hoping we get a PG that fits our system!!!

The following Fanpost article summarizes my thoughts on Payton and the trade:   "I'm sick that we couldn't get more for Payton...I understand the market dictates this but that just plain sucks! In the end though he was not motivated to play consistently or try on defense. If he does this on the right team in a system he can be an all-star, sadly he was never gonna be that here."

The Following link describes, hopefully, what our next PG will bring to the table

https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2018/2/7/16988132/what-do-you-look-for-in-a-point-guard

Your saying his shooting has not improved is FALSE. And that is the blindness that Murphy is citing. 

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Magicman28    251
2 hours ago, Originalticketholder said:

Great discussion and the bottom line is Payton is gone and we are searching for a new PG.  I personally think this has been our weakest link and  addressing this will make us a better team. ?4the win just described, in his previous post, due to his lack of shooting, why Payton did not work for us.  That was described as his weakness when we drafted him and it just never improved enough.  Here is hoping we get a PG that fits our system!!!

The following Fanpost article summarizes my thoughts on Payton and the trade:   "I'm sick that we couldn't get more for Payton...I understand the market dictates this but that just plain sucks! In the end though he was not motivated to play consistently or try on defense. If he does this on the right team in a system he can be an all-star, sadly he was never gonna be that here."

The Following link describes, hopefully, what our next PG will bring to the table

https://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2018/2/7/16988132/what-do-you-look-for-in-a-point-guard

Yeah I agree for most of what you said but he is shooting better.

I think Payton and the Magic needed to move on from one another. He was comfortable and sometimes, a change of scenery helps. We're struggling and he has played a big role in that struggle. Different coaches, different seasons, you can only say so much so many times.

I think in a couple of years, he'll put it all together. I wish we could've gotten more. He's worth more. 

Reading that article btw, Trae checks off on quite a few of those.

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Murphy13    166
2 hours ago, ?4thewin said:

Payton's shooting doesn't matter except as a function of defensive geometry.  

Until he makes enough for defenders to care about him shooting it has no effective impact for him to shoot 28% or 40%

And it'd be one thing if he took every open three but he's taking 3 every 2 games.  Is 28 made threes over 47 games significantly different than 20 made threes over 47 games? 

My point is that you're overstating the importance to an extent.  

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