2016-2017 Season Discussion Thread

[Justin Jaudon 221]

Payton is horrible and Gordon is god. Got it. jeez u guys are too much. What is Gordon shooting? How bout Watson or rudez?

 

You just need to accept that Payton is Payton, dude. He makes his own bed with his inconsistent play game to game, quarter to quarter. If it bothers you that much that people on here have issues with his inconsistency, I'm sorry. But it's not that anyone hates Elf. No one here treats Gordon like god, either. There are discussions on this board of trading Gordon. But Payton is objectively a horrible starter due to his inconsistency. That's why, despite everything Hennigan and this organization has done to coddle him, he's finally been benched for a journeyman undersized vet shooting barely 40% from the field. I doubt it will last (Elf still has those pictures of Henny, after all); but even when he's back in the starting lineup, people on here will still recognize that he's horrible.

[fan for too long 2 535]

So Payton has had 10 good games and 8 bad ones. According to you. How many bad games has the team had? It's not all on him. Contrary to popular belief.

[Jay Magic 1,251]

JoshuaBRobbins

 

Jodie Meeks will not play tonight, but I wouldn't be surprised if he plays tomorrow in Philly or later on this trip.

[rekraprovert 6]

I think a lineup of Payton/Meeks/Fournier/AG/Ibaka would be very interesting if Vogel gives it a shot. Nice balance of shooting and defense. Meeks and Fournier should open up things nicely for PnR between Payton and either big.

[Justin Jaudon 221]

So Payton has had 10 good games and 8 bad ones. According to you. How many bad games has the team had? It's not all on him. Contrary to popular belief.

 

It's absolutely not all on him. No one is saying that. It's just that at this point, it's very unlikely that he will ever be part of the solution.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

So Payton has had 10 good games and 8 bad ones. According to you. How many bad games has the team had? It's not all on him. Contrary to popular belief.

 

its absolutely not entirely on him. but you see Gordon playing poorly but having a positive impact. You see Ibaka having sustained production. you have Fournier with production but negative impact and who are you going to get that's an upgrade? Bradley Beal? is he appreciably better than Fournier? is Lavine? Is Brandon Knight? is Tyler Johnson?

 

Payton plays at a position with 19 objectively better players and a few more that are arguable. There's a handful of players that are currently buried on rosters that have potential. There's as many as 7 or 8 promising point guards in this draft so you can maybe feel good about 3 of those guys becoming something.

 

why are we beholden to Payton? what proves that he has potential when every other point guard has some sort of sustained success by his 150th start?

 

What sign should we be waiting for? What is Payton missing? What is preventing him from being aggressive consistently? We went from a former nba point guard nurturing coach to a interim coach to a former nba point guard demanding coach to an empowering nba coach and had nothing change

 

post all star his rookie year he averaged 35 mpg 11.1 ppg 8.3 apg on 42.9/33/56 shooting

his second year he averaged 29.4 mpg 10.7 ppg 6.4 apg on 43.6/33/59 shooting

this year he's averaging 29.4 mpg 10.9 ppg 5.3 apg on 43.6/20/63% shooting

 

maybe after 175 games he's just a 10-11 ish 5-7 ish 43/30/60 player

[Magicman28 295]

its absolutely not entirely on him. but you see Gordon playing poorly but having a positive impact. You see Ibaka having sustained production. you have Fournier with production but negative impact and who are you going to get that's an upgrade? Bradley Beal? is he appreciably better than Fournier? is Lavine? Is Brandon Knight? is Tyler Johnson?

 

Payton plays at a position with 19 objectively better players and a few more that are arguable. There's a handful of players that are currently buried on rosters that have potential. There's as many as 7 or 8 promising point guards in this draft so you can maybe feel good about 3 of those guys becoming something.

 

why are we beholden to Payton? what proves that he has potential when every other point guard has some sort of sustained success by his 150th start?

 

What sign should we be waiting for? What is Payton missing? What is preventing him from being aggressive consistently? We went from a former nba point guard nurturing coach to a interim coach to a former nba point guard demanding coach to an empowering nba coach and had nothing change

 

post all star his rookie year he averaged 35 mpg 11.1 ppg 8.3 apg on 42.9/33/56 shooting

his second year he averaged 29.4 mpg 10.7 ppg 6.4 apg on 43.6/33/59 shooting

this year he's averaging 29.4 mpg 10.9 ppg 5.3 apg on 43.6/20/63% shooting

 

maybe after 175 games he's just a 10-11 ish 5-7 ish 43/30/60 player

 

Yup. Brevin Knight without the hard nose attitude.

 

If we had an Wall, Lilliard, type of PG we would be a competitor.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Yup. Brevin Knight without the hard nose attitude.

 

If we had an Wall, Lilliard, type of PG we would be a competitor.

 

I don't even think we need a great point guard. I think we need a consistent point guard. If I had to come up with a benchmark I'd say "the production of but a higher consistency than Jeremy Lin"

[Magicman28 295]

I don't even think we need a great point guard. I think we need a consistent point guard. If I had to come up with a benchmark I'd say "the production of but a higher consistency than Jeremy Lin"

 

 

To make the playoffs once or so yeah but to stay there for consecutive seasons and possibly get to the ECF we'll need an really good scorer. PG would be great because it would balance the lineup out.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

To make the playoffs once or so yeah but to stay there for consecutive seasons and possibly get to the ECF we'll need an really good scorer. PG would be great because it would balance the lineup out.

 

oh sure but I'm only concerned with what's achievable now.

[Catalina Maria 64]

The team looks better with Augustin in the SL. We weren't getting behind by double digits at the end of quarters.

[Odin 137]

I don't even think we need a great point guard. I think we need a consistent point guard. If I had to come up with a benchmark I'd say "the production of but a higher consistency than Jeremy Lin"

 

What even is a great point guard in today's NBA? It feels like you could take the 10th best point guard in today's NBA, move back to almost any other era and he would be top 3 or so.

 

Elite Point Guards:

 

Chris Paul

Westbrook

Curry

Lillard

Harden (?)

 

Almost there:

 

John Wall

Kyrie Erving

Kemba Walker

 

Very Very good:

 

Conley

Lowry

Thomas

Holiday

Bledsoe

 

(a lot of these could be argued a bit).

 

Has there ever been a time that the league has been so stacked at one position? Surely we can find a better point guard somewhere, whether through free agency, the draft, or trade.