HeHateMe 697 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 We were significantly better when Fournier was on the bench post all star. He's a good offensive player but a terrible defensive player. Like I said, Mario has to hit shots he needs to hit and continue to play solid defense and he'll have more of a positive impact than Fournier. And no **** Fournier had the highest win shares, he played the most minutes. Look at his win shares per 48 though. Fournier was/is not a terrible defender. Watch the last 2 times we played Indiana and tell me how he did against PG. If he was a terrible defender, Skiles would not have played him the 1100 more minutes you spoke of earlier. Give Mario Fournier's minutes next year and we'll be worse then we were this year or at the very least equally as bad. There is a reason Fournier is about to make a lot of money, and it's not just because he's a good offensive player, he's a capable defender. Will never be a top defender or anything close but he is a middle of the pack defensive player. 9th in the league among SG's in steals, 15th in blocks, 3rd on the team in DWS (tied for Payton, who most on here say is an elite defender). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 Fournier was/is not a terrible defender. Watch the last 2 times we played Indiana and tell me how he did against PG. If he was a terrible defender, Skiles would not have played him the 1100 more minutes you spoke of earlier. Give Mario Fournier's minutes next year and we'll be worse then we were this year or at the very least equally as bad. There is a reason Fournier is about to make a lot of money, and it's not just because he's a good offensive player, he's a capable defender. Will never be a top defender or anything close but he is a middle of the pack defensive player. 9th in the league among SG's in steals, 15th in blocks, 3rd on the team in DWS (tied for Payton, who most on here say is an elite defender). Fournier has a defensive rating of 106.8 last year. That's bad. When Fournier didn't play, we had a defensive rating of 100. That's good. Post all star Fournier had a defensive rating of 110. That's really bad When Fournier wasn't in the game post all star break our defensive rating was 101.5. That's nice. Facts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 Maybe it's fatigue. Fournier's defense fell off completely after a good December. In fact, looking at his splits, his defense improved with every extra day of rest. Horrible on back to backs. Bad on 1 day rest. Good with 2 days rest. And so on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan for too long 2 531 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 May have been an effort issue as he sure didn't want to get hurt. With that big contract looming. He also played selfish on offense. Don't know if that's his game or just the situation he was in. But it has to b on Rob's mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeHateMe 697 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 Fournier has a defensive rating of 106.8 last year. That's bad. When Fournier didn't play, we had a defensive rating of 100. That's good. Post all star Fournier had a defensive rating of 110. That's really bad When Fournier wasn't in the game post all star break our defensive rating was 101.5. That's nice. Facts! Pre All-Star game Magic sucked, Post all-star game Magic sucked. Your right though. If we just get rid of Fournier, we'll be a good team because stats. Idk why we played him at all last year because without him were a contender because stats. Why is Rob even considering resigning him? It's clear that if he's not on the court we are an elite defensive team because of stats. We don't need any free agents, just keep Fournier as far away from this franchise as possible because of stats and we'll be elite. Bottom line, you can find stats that make Fournier look like a bad defender, I can find ones that make him look like a serviceable defender. Watch the tape of him against Paul George. Don't tell me he's a terrible defender because he's not. Stats don't always tell the whole story for either side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HeHateMe 697 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 May have been an effort issue as he sure didn't want to get hurt. With that big contract looming. He also played selfish on offense. Don't know if that's his game or just the situation he was in. But it has to b on Rob's mind. Effort issue? Really? Were you watching the same team this year? Fournier was the emotional leader of the team. He was always all over the court, I never once watched a game and thought "Oh he's holding back because he doesn't want to get hurt". Rob has made it clear he wants Evan back, so that is on his mind your right there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 Pre All-Star game Magic sucked, Post all-star game Magic sucked. Your right though. If we just get rid of Fournier, we'll be a good team because stats. Idk why we played him at all last year because without him were a contender because stats. Why is Rob even considering resigning him? It's clear that if he's not on the court we are an elite defensive team because of stats. We don't need any free agents, just keep Fournier as far away from this franchise as possible because of stats and we'll be elite. Bottom line, you can find stats that make Fournier look like a bad defender, I can find ones that make him look like a serviceable defender. Watch the tape of him against Paul George. Don't tell me he's a terrible defender because he's not. Stats don't always tell the whole story for either side. This is the type of argument one makes when they have nothing better to counter with. Even with the eye test, you could see his defense wasn't up to par. Yeah, some nights he had another gear, that game against Indiana, but he was consistently bad on that end of the court. Now, I totally expect Rob to treat his free agency the way he did with Tobias. Sign or match and see what strides he makes under Vogel. He's an asset. Only way I don't see us matching, is if Durant is coming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 Pre All-Star game Magic sucked, Post all-star game Magic sucked. Your right though. If we just get rid of Fournier, we'll be a good team because stats. Idk why we played him at all last year because without him were a contender because stats. Why is Rob even considering resigning him? It's clear that if he's not on the court we are an elite defensive team because of stats. We don't need any free agents, just keep Fournier as far away from this franchise as possible because of stats and we'll be elite. Bottom line, you can find stats that make Fournier look like a bad defender, I can find ones that make him look like a serviceable defender. Watch the tape of him against Paul George. Don't tell me he's a terrible defender because he's not. Stats don't always tell the whole story for either side. Or we could just play him at backup 2 instead of 41 mpg out of position Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1Penny 3 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 It isn't giving up on Payton just because we bring in another PG. If he is as good as you guys say he is (which, he isn't), he can still develop in a bench role. If he improves his shot drastically (which he won't), he can still do so in a bench role. Just because I don't think someone is good, doesn't mean I'm a basher. It's because I don't think they're very good. Payton has career backup written all over him. Which isn't the worse thing in the world, I think he'll be a solid backup. But you can't be that atrocious on the offensive end and be successful in today's NBA. I'd rather start CJ Watson. Can't remember where I posted it but, I pretty much was spot on with this. I think Payton would probably be the best backup PG in the league, which is not a bad thing at all. The roster has to compliment itself, top to bottom. Of the youngsters, EP is by far the most expendable. Dipo is gonna get maxed. AG has obvious untapped potential, as in he's Hella athletic and is an upper echelon defender already. Mario is the most deadly shot on a roster starved for floor spreading, so his value is head and shoulders above EP. Kid is easily the weak link of the future starters on this team when you look at it. The leap he'd have to make to become an upper echelon point is something I'm not holding my breath for. But I'm all for him proving me wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Justin Jaudon 221 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 Bottom line, you can find stats that make Fournier look like a bad defender, I can find ones that make him look like a serviceable defender. Watch the tape of him against Paul George. Don't tell me he's a terrible defender because he's not. Stats don't always tell the whole story for either side. I think the reason you can find stats for both ways is that he isn't a terrible defender, he's just not a real 3. He's got excellent fundamentals on D but he struggles with guys who are long and can move well. He did play well against Paul, but mostly by denying him the ball. On-ball, Paul was too quick and long for him. But Indiana really didn't take advantage as much as they could, partly because Fournier did a good job making it tough on him before he got the ball. I think Fournier is a perfect candidate to be an elite 6th man, but he clearly is not a good option on D as a full-time 3. Now, if Orlando goes out and gets an elite defensive center and he can just funnel guys into a talented rim protector, we might be able to hide his defensive problems more effectively, because his great fundamentals make him perfect for that type of defense. But I'd still rather get a true 3 as a starter and let Fournier come in off the bench for 30 a game as a 2 and a 3 depending on circumstances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 We should probably stop talking about this in the draft section. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CTMagicUK 1,482 Report post Posted June 5, 2016 A little weird we still haven't heard about any workouts. And have also heard nothing about Vogel's staff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
