GAMETHREAD: Birds @ Magic

[TrueMagicFan07 674]

So much this.

 

 

Nobody expects Victor to be the key piece leading the team to another championship. Due to roster construction he's forced to be the guy right now.

 

This is afflalo all over again.

 

Payton, I have a few questions for you.

 

• When Dwight was drafted, was he expected to be the key piece leading the team to a championship?
   
  
• How long (years) did it take Dwight to develop or become disciplined?
   
  
• Was Dwight expected to be the first option?

 

Victor played in college and Dwight was fresh out of high school.

 

 

This is just for my information because I don't remember what the expectations were for Dwight.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

Payton, I have a few questions for you.

 

• When Dwight was drafted, was he expected to be the key piece leading the team to a championship?
   
  
• How long (years) did it take Dwight to develop or become disciplined?
   
  
• Was Dwight expected to be the first option.

 

Victor played in college and Dwight was fresh out of high school.

 

 

This is just for my information because I don't remember what the expectations were for Dwight.

 

 

Yes. Very early on he received the "oh my god this guy could be amazing" type praise. I remember in summer league some coach suggested that he would average 5 blocks per game. Articles from 04 say things like "has stretches where he looks like a franchise player". This was all before he played a regular season game.

 

I'd say Dwight became disciplined in 07 or 08 though I think people could make the case that he's never been disciplined.

 

Yes, Victor played in college but it takes some time to catch up to the pro game. A college game is so much slower than an nba game. The length of the season is also an issue. That's why you see players take a leap between their first and second year and a larger one between their second and third year.

 

This is also why we're so excited about Payton. Not because of his play, but his rate of improvement. Other teams have figured out major weaknesses in his game something like 4 separate times during the season. He'll have a few terrible, frustrating games and we'll say he hit a wall. Then he comes back a week later with a counter move or a floater or a completely different speed to the game. That's something that is supposed to take weeks to change, not days. It's special.

 

Victor isn't special. He's a grinder. He's going to work to change things but it's going to take an off-season to incorporate his improvement.

[Catman 380]

Exactly right - Victor is not a special elite SG, but he could easily be our starting SG for years IF we get an elite SF.

 

I don't discuss Victor as a negative in terms of being harsh on him but more as looking at the construction of the team moving forward.

 

We have so many weaknesses. The only thing close to a complete player we have right now is Elf, and his shooting is not there yet.

[O_SteveO 102]

You were expecting discipline on offense from a 2nd year player who had never even been used as a real offensive weapon until his junior year in college, had never been asked to handle the ball until last year and had never been a guy that was a counted on scorer until this year?

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what Payton and I said earlier, and somehow it continues to be ignored.

[jjgator 164]

I'm pretty sure this is exactly what Payton and I said earlier, and somehow it continues to be ignored.

 

Let's also not forget injuries probably set him back a bit earlier in the season.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

When we drafted Oladipo we expected a solid starting sg with potential to make a single all star game. Maybe two. Not a perennial guy.

 

Post all star, Oladipo has shown he's a solid starting shooting guard with potential to make an all star team (if we have a good team and he has a good month or two)

 

So he's meeting expectations.

 

So why are we criticizing him?

 

Am I crazy?

 

I think part of the problem is that I don't think a lot of the people on this board's memories of NBA shooting guards goes back a whole lot farther than 2002.

 

Weirdly, for me, the most apt comparisons I can think of for Payton and Oladipo since I started watching NBA basketball('88) is Rod Strickland and and a better Thunder Dan Majerle.

 

And if you can get that level of play from consecutive drafts, to say nothing about whatever Aaron Gordon ultimately turns out to be, you've drafted very well.

 

Sidenote: It remains baffling to me that Strickland never made an all-star game.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I think part of the problem is that I don't think a lot of the people on this board's memories of NBA shooting guards goes back a whole lot farther than 2002.

 

Weirdly, for me, the most apt comparisons I can think of for Payton and Oladipo since I started watching NBA basketball('88) is Rod Strickland and and a better Thunder Dan Majerle.

 

And if you can get that level of play from consecutive drafts, to say nothing about whatever Aaron Gordon ultimately turns out to be, you've drafted very well.

 

Sidenote: It remains baffling to me that Strickland never made an all-star game.

 

I think smaller Sean Elliott is a better comp than majerle

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

I think smaller Sean Elliott is a better comp than majerle

 

I think Vic is arguably better than Elliott already, and definitely projects better going forward.

 

Elliott was horribly inconsistent at shooting his whole career, largely because he didn't really have range out past about 20'. He didn't defend particularly well, didn't pass well, and was only a so-so rebounder for a guy his position.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I think Vic is arguably better than Elliott already, and definitely projects better going forward.

 

Elliott was horribly inconsistent at shooting his whole career, largely because he didn't really have range out past about 20'. He didn't defend particularly well, didn't pass well, and was only a so-so rebounder for a guy his position.

 

Michael Finley

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

Michael Finley

 

That works.

[JJZFL 619]

 

 

I feel that Victor's turnovers are right where we need them to be. He just needs to cut down on them when games start meaning **** next season.

 

 

 

I hope you're right about next season. People were saying the games would be more meaningful this season (the tanking is over, etc). Personally I don't think another years experience for this group will make all that much difference. After three years rebuilding we still need to add some major pieces and find a good coach. At this point I think next season is a long shot. Ball is in Hennigans court I guess.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

I hope you're right about next season. People were saying the games would be more meaningful this season (the tanking is over, etc). Personally I don't think another years experience for this group will make all that much difference. After three years rebuilding we still need to add some major pieces and find a good coach. At this point I think next season is a long shot. Ball is in Hennigans court I guess.

 

Taking was over I.e. Losing games on purpose. Now we're losing games on accident.