Official 2015 Offseason Thread

[ShefGator2 77]

The ratio of people complaining about Frye's contract in relation to praising the Vuc deal is incredibly slanted in the wrong direction.

Honestly, the way this crazy market is playing out, the Frye contract isn't nearly as wretched now as it seemed a year ago. It's probably pretty moveable for a team that has a need for his skill set (yeah, I know, what skills?).

[~O~ 565]

The less we overpay by, the more credit Hennigan should get. Vucevic is underpaid but be thankful he's not making a circus out of it. The doubt is that Vucevic doesn't really seem to care much because he's still rich. As we can see, he's not excessively flashy with his wealth. I believe there has been news on him during any off season he's been here. Vucevic keeps relatively quiet during these times.

[Murphy13 185]

To quote you directly :

 

"If Exum is ever listed at SG you win"

 

Now you change the bet.

 

Just shows your lack of character.

 

I have already won, so now you try and twist your words.

 

Look. Ill let the $50 go. Obviously it is big money for you.

 

I quoted you directly, and you are claiming otherwise despite that. How does that relate to your character? And you respond by sending me a link of basketball reference, as if I don't know what it is? I used that very source to prove your lying stats out both ends! Unbelievable.

[Murphy13 185]

Correct.

 

Its a terrible stat and that was my point. Which is why I also posted more stats that further prove my point because basing everything on the stats he was using is foolish.

 

But whatever. I made it all up, even though its all right there in the link I provided. lol.

 

Don't make it like I didn't bring a bevy of stats to the table in relevant conversation. You were the one that brought up +/-, not me...I just pointed out that you made up the number, which you did. You can't provide anything to the contrary otherwise.

[Murphy13 185]

What are we arguing about with Harris?

 

I think it's indisputable that Harris is a ball stopping guy with poor defense and the team played slightly better when he was on the bench.

 

I also think it's indisputable that Harris can score, is showing encouraging signs of being able to shoot, can play two positions, and has significant room for improvement.

 

The anti Harris crowd is banking on the idea that a player can't change his tendencies and those tendencies are similar to many great players on teams that had little success. His tendencies don't work in a new nba that requires ball movement and spacing above all else.

 

The pro Harris crowd points to his efficiency and his age. If he can improve his shot enough to play the role of a spot up shooter and only break out his iso basketball skills when necessary then you have a very dangerous player and his tendencies don't matter as much.

 

Stop arguing about this because no statistic is going to point the argument in a new direction.

 

It wasn't about Harris, it was about Catman making up stats that don't exist repeatedly. There were two other outright lies in the orginial red-lettered response clear as day that he ignored...he just focused on the +/- for some reason. And, no, that link to basketball reference he provided didn't have anything refuting my claims, it links back to what I showed him though...which is crazy in itself.

[Catman 380]

I quoted you directly, and you are claiming otherwise despite that. How does that relate to your character? And you respond by sending me a link of basketball reference, as if I don't know what it is? I used that very source to prove your lying stats out both ends! Unbelievable.

 

 

How are the stats lying again? I simply went to the same website and told you what stats I pulled. Anyone here can do the same thing.

 

It's pretty obvious I am not lying about anything and you have a serious communication issue.

 

Let me make it super clear, so you stop going on and on about it :

 

1. Your plus minus stat that you claim makes Harris look bad puts Harris, Victor and Nik as our worst players. Therefore,it's probably not a great stat to base your argument on.

 

2. My stats are not me "lying" or making up anything. I showed you the link to the site and what categories I looked up. If that is lying, then yes, I am filthy, slimy bastard. For the 5th time. The stats exist, are not made up and I provided a direct link to them.

 

I hope that makes you feel better now.

 

Ill just take this a little further because I feel like its very boring for others to read the back and forth.

 

I have ZERO problem with your opinion that Tobias Harris may not be a starter for us long term. I do believe that the numbers show that while he has his issues, he also was one of our best players the past few years.

 

Does that mean he is a 6th man or a starter? No one knows yet because these dudes are super young.

 

We essentially are arguing about something that we will find out together over the next season.

 

If you had told me that Rashard Lewis, Courtney Lee, Rafer Alston and Hedo Turk were the best 4 guys that would surround Dwight Howard and take us to a title series, I would have laughed. But it happened.

 

So lets see what happens.

[Murphy13 185]

How are the stats lying again? I simply went to the same website and told you what stats I pulled. Anyone here can do the same thing.

 

It's pretty obvious I am not lying about anything and you have a serious communication issue.

 

Let me make it super clear, so you stop going on and on about it :

 

1. Your plus minus stat that you claim makes Harris look bad puts Harris, Victor and Nik as our worst players. Therefore,it's probably not a great stat to base your argument on.

 

2. My stats are not me "lying" or making up anything. I showed you the link to the site and what categories I looked up. If that is lying, then yes, I am filthy, slimy bastard. For the 5th time. The stats exist, are not made up and I provided a direct link to them.

 

I hope that makes you feel better now.

 

There were no stats on the page showing what you said-which was that Harris was top 3 in +/-. It was just the front page for the Orlando Magic 14/15 season...which doesn't even show +/-, much less proving that you are anything other than a liar.

 

Get this through your head: My argument had nothing to do with the players themselves, my argument is that YOU ARE MAKING STUFF UP.

[Catman 380]

There were no stats on the page showing what you said-which was that Harris was top 3 in +/-. It was just the front page for the Orlando Magic 14/15 season...which doesn't even show +/-, much less proving that you are anything other than a liar.

 

Get this through your head: My argument had nothing to do with the players themselves, my argument is that YOU ARE MAKING STUFF UP.

 

I know what you are saying and yet I linked you to all the stats. I made nothing up. It's madness to keep saying this.

 

I used Box plus minus. Its a much better indicator. Like I said, the plus minus you are using is not very good. Unless you think Nik Vuc was one of the worst players on our team.

[Catman 380]

Check out the VORP stat. Thats what many folks use to figure out a teams best starting 5.

 

It's debatable. But the Magic didn't really have one starting 5 unit that was really good last year. It's searching for a needle in a haystack really.

[Murphy13 185]

I know what you are saying and yet I linked you to all the stats. I made nothing up. It's madness to keep saying this.

 

I used Box plus minus. Its a much better indicator. Like I said, the plus minus you are using is not very good. Unless you think Nik Vuc was one of the worst players on our team.

 

Box plus minus is a better indicator, agreed. But you didn't say Harris had a top 3 box plus/minus. You said he had top 3 plus/minus. I'm not using +/-, I literally just checked your claim to see if what true, and it wasn't. My arguments were based on off and def efficiency (and other things) in other conversations, I never touched +/- except to call you out. So quit saying I think Nik or Vic or whoever is bad because I never inferred that, nor can it logically be construed from this Cat-rain Wreck.

 

Either way, even if you change your story to box plus minus, Harris still isn't in the top 3. So changing stories doesn't really help either.

[Catman 380]

Box plus minus is a better indicator, agreed. But you didn't say Harris had a top 3 box plus/minus. You said he had top 3 plus/minus. I'm not using +/-, I literally just checked your claim to see if what true, and it wasn't. My arguments were based on off and def efficiency (and other things) in other conversations, I never touched +/- except to call you out. So quit saying I think Nik or Vic or whoever is bad because I never inferred that, nor can it logically be construed from this Cat-rain Wreck.

 

Either way, even if you change your story to box plus minus, Harris still isn't in the top 3. So changing stories doesn't really help either.

 

You are so focused on arguing that you can't have a conversation. Relax man.

 

I too posted multiple stats besides the BOX plus minus. You are so focused on "calling me out" that you did not touch upon anything else that I said.

 

So I don't think this is about basketball anymore to you. It's just a petty argument. Let it go.

 

There is no train wreck. There is Murphy arguing and trying to make it out that I said all these things that are terrible and wrong. They are not.

 

I don't use the normal Plus Minus because I know you don't think Vuc is bad, but that is what that stat says. I said I used advanced stats from the beginning. I prefer them and have been pretty clear about that.

 

If we used regular Plus Minus the entire starting lineup should be waived.

[TheNameIsOrlando 310]

Shame I usually at least moderately enjoy post from both you but your constant arguing like little ass kids is tiresome. Ignore list time.