What in the Magic's history suggests they could "EVER"

[Mauro Pedrosa 1,032]

He is doing fine in Dallas. Dallas is fairly solid team.

 

I am going to see the Mavs play on my trip to see VC, Dirk, and Ellis. I am more excited to see the match up between VC and Paul George. Might be a dunk fest night.

This isn't 2002

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Voodoo Man 99]

American imperialism certainly existed, but it was very much in the realm of "Aw, look at the cute little Americans! They think they're people!" level when compared to what the major powers of Europe were doing at the time. We took over a few island nations for no reason, but the major European powers were seemingly competing to see who could carve Africa into the weirdest shapes. And that doesn't even get into what the Spanish did to South America.

 

 

But I certainly didn't mean to imply that there was no foundation for American political and military strength before WWII; America had established that, at least to some extent, over the course of the first World War some 20 years earlier. But there was very little before WWII to indicate that the United States would become THE cultural, economic and military monolith of the Western world for the subsequent 70 years.

After having served two tours of duty in Viet Nam, I can assure you that we were not considered THE military monolith of the western world on March 29,1973. Other than that, your analysis is pretty much spot on.

[Berto 338]

Ball Junkie and a MagLeeto reference - I've gone back in time to 2008.

[nCoolness 79]

This isn't 2002

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Vince still got it in him.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDZJfKd43eU

[God Hates Otis Smith 153]

I'll start at the beginning of the franchise.

 

Win the lottery 2 years in a row....Draft Shaq and Penny....Shaq stays until his rookie contract runs out....Leaves for bigger lights....Penny stays longer but feuds with management and is soon after shown the door.

 

Rebuild roster.

 

In 2000 try to sign Duncan, Hill and McGrady....Duncan stays in S.A..... Hill gets hurt and T-Mac becomes a superstar....Doesn't take long for T-Mac to be at odds with management and then he is gone.

 

Rebuild roster.

 

Win the lottery....Draft Howard and Nelson in same year....Nelson isn't consistent enough and Howard, although he does sign an extension starts having issues with management and he is gone.

 

Are we seeing a pattern here ????

 

Which bring us to today....Not sure who is the owner of the team....Last I heard Mr. Devoss was having health issues and gave it to someone else in the family....I find it hard to believe Orlando can win a championship with Amway millionaires running the show.....They have gone and hired a young GM(Hennigan) that follows the Spurs and OKC models of winning.

 

OKC has yet to win it and the Spurs had a primetime Tim Duncan to win their's.

 

Chad Ford said before the trade deadline that everyone on the Magic's roster could be had except Olidipo.

 

Tom Haberstroth after the deadline put the Magic in the loser category although he didn't place blame on Hennigan.

 

 

 

Now, management has shown a great ability to spend money as we all know.

 

Anyone that can make a case as to how the Magic can one day be NBA Champions I'd be interested in their thoughts......

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10495180/nba-which-teams-were-trade-deadline-winners-losers

how are any past events relevant to now and the future? it's hard to win a title, alot of luck is involved, see miami last year.

[ball junkie 277]

I believe the OP is very fair... especially because it comes from a dude that was a season ticket holder for years. Few thoughts from me:

 

1. Championships are VERY hard to come by.

2. The Magic have made plenty of mistakes throughout the years and have not proven to be a championship organization... yet.

3. Clearly, the Magic are following the recent paths of the Thunder and Rockets by acquiring tons of young assets, focusing on player development, and setting a clear team-centric culture... which has yet to be produce a recent championship for either team.

 

I really like where this team is headed... but we need to get or develop at least one once in a generation player in the next year or two.

 

Thanks, Soul.....

 

On number 1.....Agreed.

 

Number 2 - Agree again except for the "yet" part.

 

Number 3 - Agree again.

 

The Magic will draft wherever they're gonna draft this summer....They will try to develop players with Vaughn which I'm not convinced of as I see many others complaining about the development of even our current young players.

 

Then they will either leave or feud with management.....Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Amway guys have no clue on how to manage the fragile psyche of the NBA superstar or on how to win or develop a championship culture.

 

The previous GM's we've had made so many mistakes that I think it's making Henny play very conservative so far as to not be lumped in with other bone-headed GM's we've had.....He's afraid to take a risk for fear of screwing up again.

 

Lastly, I'm as big a Magic homer as there is but anyone that thinks we could have won either Finals we participated in would not be able to get many NBA fans to agree with them....Even if Magleeto's shot would have gone in.....The only game we won against the Lakers that year we had to shoot like "70" percent to get that win.....I was at that game.....And of course the Rockets swept us.

[Johnny Castaway 31]

We took over a few island nations for no reason

 

Which island nations are you referring to, DOM?

 

EDIT: Let's stay on topic … OP. Thanks

[Soul Bro 1,419]

Amway guys have no clue on how to manage the fragile psyche of the NBA superstar or on how to win or develop a championship culture.

 

The previous GM's we've had made so many mistakes that I think it's making Henny play very conservative so far as to not be lumped in with other bone-headed GM's we've had.....He's afraid to take a risk for fear of screwing up again.

 

Lastly, I'm as big a Magic homer as there is but anyone that thinks we could have won either Finals we participated in would not be able to get many NBA fans to agree with them....Even if Magleeto's shot would have gone in.....The only game we won against the Lakers that year we had to shoot like "70" percent to get that win.....I was at that game.....And of course the Rockets swept us.

While I'm choosing to give Henny a fresh start given his history with the Spurs and Thunder and the moves he's made with us, I agree that our owner and past management never cracked the code of the superstar or install a consistent championship culture. (For those that disagree, just think of the moves of Hockey guy and the drunk dial of Vander Weide. Ugghh. IMHO, ownership has typically chosen loyalty and familiarity over competency as it relates to their GMs. This seems to have changed with Henny.)

 

As to Henny being too conservative, I respect the patient and methodical approach he's taking. Furthermore, he's still cleaning up the mistakes of Otis. I'm giving him three years to see what he can do.

[Johnny Castaway 31]

Which island nations are you referring to, DOM?

 

EDIT: Let's stay on topic … OP. Thanks

 

ok

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

Thanks, Soul.....

 

On number 1.....Agreed.

 

Number 2 - Agree again except for the "yet" part.

 

Number 3 - Agree again.

 

The Magic will draft wherever they're gonna draft this summer....They will try to develop players with Vaughn which I'm not convinced of as I see many others complaining about the development of even our current young players.

 

Then they will either leave or feud with management.....Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

Amway guys have no clue on how to manage the fragile psyche of the NBA superstar or on how to win or develop a championship culture.

 

The previous GM's we've had made so many mistakes that I think it's making Henny play very conservative so far as to not be lumped in with other bone-headed GM's we've had.....He's afraid to take a risk for fear of screwing up again.

 

Lastly, I'm as big a Magic homer as there is but anyone that thinks we could have won either Finals we participated in would not be able to get many NBA fans to agree with them....Even if Magleeto's shot would have gone in.....The only game we won against the Lakers that year we had to shoot like "70" percent to get that win.....I was at that game.....And of course the Rockets swept us.

 

What you call conservative I call smart and patient. Each of our GM's in the past have made knee jerk reaction moves that have killed us, we are what year 2 into a rebuild and we will have 2 good picks in a deep draft, we have a guy who looks like at worst he will be a solid starting 2 who plays great d, a center that can rebound and clog the middle and score, and....hit free throws, as well as a slew of solid players to round out the roster. I'm not sure what more anyone could ask from Rob. Should he mortgage our future on a boarderline player now? People crucified Otis for that (rightfully so). I'm tired of the Billy King approach, mostly because if it works once there are a million times that it blows up and causes a decade of pain.

 

As far as past finals experiences, there is no planet where we stood a chance against Houston, mostly because Hakeem absolutely owned Shaq. You can point to the game we won against the Lakers as an anomaly, I would say that 3 of the Laker wins were tight and had we had a healthy Jameer we would have won those 3. People forget that we killed the Lakers during the regular season with a healthy Jameer. No GM, management, etc can prepare for bad luck which is what Jameer's should injury was.

 

Losing superstars... well lets see

 

Shaq-left because Shaq wanted to be in LA. I know this because he's said, he wanted to be in a big market. He said he wanted to be in LA before the draft even took place. He said he wanted to be in movies. Unless there is a GM out there that can switch LA and Orlando I don't think we were going to win that one.

Penny-left because he was broken down and we had to rid ourselves of him

Tracy-left because the GM had the misfortune of signing Grant and he prevented us from signing help. We were always just good enough to be out of a high pick so Tracy got tired of carrying the load.

Dwight-left because the GM was weak, caved in to requests to sign players that had no business on this team. GM signs players to bad contracts, doesn't have the money to get Dwight help because of this, he gets tired of carrying the load and wants out.

 

You complain about Rob being conservative and methodical which is completely different from every other GM we've ever had, then you ask what in their history suggest they could ever win a title?? The ownership's error in the past was always hiring GM's based on friendships rather than guys who were qualified. Rob is a break from that pattern. His approach is different, his drafting has been fantastic. I can't remember a time in our past where we have drafted late first and 2nd round guys that were anything more than end of the bench summer league fodder, that hasn't been the case. I don't see Rob making knee jerk reactions and trading away cap space for Gilbert Arenas, Hedo m-fing Turkoglu, and Jason Richardson.

 

Can we have bad luck again and sign a guy that gets injured? Sure, but is that in the GM's control? Can that happen to every other team in the league as well? We have a GM now that is making smart cap moves, drafting well, and an ownership that has demonstrated that they are willing to spend money. Unless you know of a GM that can see the future or control the minds of other people I don't see how we have any less of a chance than any other team.

[ball junkie 277]

While I'm choosing to give Henny a fresh start given his history with the Spurs and Thunder and the moves he's made with us, I agree that our owner and past management never cracked the code of the superstar or install a consistent championship culture. (For those that disagree, just think of the moves of Hockey guy and the drunk dial of Vander Weide. Ugghh. IMHO, ownership has typically chosen loyalty and familiarity over competency as it relates to their GMs. This seems to have changed with Henny.)

 

As to Henny being too conservative, I respect the patient and methodical approach he's taking. Furthermore, he's still cleaning up the mistakes of Otis. I'm giving him three years to see what he can do.

 

LOL, Yeah, I had forgotten about the drunk dial, good examples and I think you've given a fair assessment here.

 

On Marc Acres post you seemed happy with Henny's drafting and young talent he has acquired….It isn't showing up in the win column as last year we had the worst record in the league and this year we are 3rd from last….And we even have veteran's to help us like Jameer, Affalo who was a borderline All-Star and Glenn Davis.

 

I'll remind that Chad Ford said before the trade deadline that anybody on the Magic roster could be had except for Olidipo….The only keeper we've got since Henny got here.

 

I also question how much more money the Devoss family will be willing to spend given how much has been wasted by previous GM's…..You gotta know they are losing incredible amounts owning this team.

 

And lastly is the credibility issue….When the small market Spurs won Popovich was their coach and he had Olympic Dream Team experiences.

 

Right now we've got Henny and Vaughn…..Both with "0" experience and "0" credibility.

 

Guess we'll see…..

[CTMagicUK 1,482]

LOL, Yeah, I had forgotten about the drunk dial, good examples and I think you've given a fair assessment here.

 

On Marc Acres post you seemed happy with Henny's drafting and young talent he has acquired….It isn't showing up in the win column as last year we had the worst record in the league and this year we are 3rd from last….And we even have veteran's to help us like Jameer, Affalo who was a borderline All-Star and Glenn Davis.

 

I'll remind that Chad Ford said before the trade deadline that anybody on the Magic roster could be had except for Olidipo….The only keeper we've got since Henny got here.

 

I also question how much more money the Devoss family will be willing to spend given how much has been wasted by previous GM's…..You gotta know they are losing incredible amounts owning this team.

 

And lastly is the credibility issue….When the small market Spurs won Popovich was their coach and he had Olympic Dream Team experiences.

 

Right now we've got Henny and Vaughn…..Both with "0" experience and "0" credibility.

 

Guess we'll see…..

 

I'm confused, what exactly would you rather the organisation do than what they are doing?