Arroyo, will be traded?

[Puya 0]

Here you go ibonedteribell

 

The future can be great

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by ibonedteribell:

quote:

I think it's all going to end up being decided by who helps us win the most games. It's true that Carlos brings in ticket sales but, winning is what will make consistant sell outs happen and that is true regardless of the ethnic makeup of the crowd.

 

Now if Carlos helps the team win the most then it will be impossible to get a ticket!

Like most of the time I have to agree with you that the one to play should earn his spot. My hypothesis was that Arroyo may be given a chance to prove himself up to mid season trade line unless there is a good option for a PG. I have to expect Carlos to have a break out season in view of his free agency wherever he goes. I prefer he does it in Orlando. If by any chance Stan improves with his salsa lessons, that comes in handy too.LOL

 

An argument could be made that if Carlos does have a breakout season that the Magic would be smart to trade him anyways. The Magic wouldn't have alot of money to resign him and they would also have to concentrate on resigning Ariza.

[spenny 0]

quote:

Diener is a prospect! Theres a big difference between a guy who requires two hands to count how many times he's been moved than a guy who has been in the league for two years, but has people knocking on the door.

 

Arroyo is a sluggish player and one who will have fire up big if he is to remain.

 

Great view nbr. How many people are asking to have Carlos...then ask how many people have been asking about Diener. Dont get me confused. Carlos is a good PG but one that we need? I think not. Diener averaged (though it was only summer league) 20.3 points, 6.5 assists, and 1.0 turnovers per game. Thats still impressive. He understands how to get people the ball in the right situations, and how to get every last bit out of his natural tools. He has showed the ability to effectively run an offense, use tempo to his advantage, and create scoring opportunities for others. I think Diener has more upside than Carlos thus making Carlos expendable via trade.

[The Dude Abides 0]

well, Fan-royos... The Dude is not one to have a source, but I was just told that CA isnt goin anywhere... atleast for the next month or so.. My "source" (not the magic insider 8-ball this time... and rather than call him my source, I will just call him a co-worker, as he really isnt a source at all... im getin off point here,so I digress).....

 

but, word on the street from high up in the Business Dev. side of the Magic Org.. is that a certain county commissioner will be placated by keeping him in town, atleast until the arena vote, word from my co-worker, who actually talked to the high up magic guy, is that she has pretty much directly told them that CA swings her vote...whether thats good business or not I'll leave that for you to decide, whether we should be building a team around a players ethnicity rather than skill set seems like garbage to me..

 

I will not stand 100 percent firmly in saying that this a for sure thing..like I said, I am just passing along information from a guy at work who I know has ties to some Magic brass.. take it all for what it is worth...whcihc is nothing at this point, just thought yall might find it interesting

[ibonedteribell 0]

quote:

Originally posted by The Dude Abides:

well, Fan-royos... The Dude is not one to have a source, but I was just told that CA isnt goin anywhere... atleast for the next month or so.. My "source" (not the magic insider 8-ball this time... and rather than call him my source, I will just call him a co-worker, as he really isnt a source at all... im getin off point here,so I digress).....

 

but, word on the street from high up in the Business Dev. side of the Magic Org.. is that a certain county commissioner will be placated by keeping him in town, atleast until the arena vote, word from my co-worker, who actually talked to the high up magic guy, is that she has pretty much directly told them that CA swings her vote...whether thats good business or not I'll leave that for you to decide, whether we should be building a team around a players ethnicity rather than skill set seems like garbage to me..

 

I will not stand 100 percent firmly in saying that this a for sure thing..like I said, I am just passing along information from a guy at work who I know has ties to some Magic brass.. take it all for what it is worth...whcihc is nothing at this point, just thought yall might find it interesting

quote:

Originally posted by The Dude Abides:

well, Fan-royos... The Dude is not one to have a source, but I was just told that CA isnt goin anywhere... atleast for the next month or so.. My "source" (not the magic insider 8-ball this time... and rather than call him my source, I will just call him a co-worker, as he really isnt a source at all... im getin off point here,so I digress).....

 

but, word on the street from high up in the Business Dev. side of the Magic Org.. is that a certain county commissioner will be placated by keeping him in town, atleast until the arena vote, word from my co-worker, who actually talked to the high up magic guy, is that she has pretty much directly told them that CA swings her vote...whether thats good business or not I'll leave that for you to decide, whether we should be building a team around a players ethnicity rather than skill set seems like garbage to me..

 

I will not stand 100 percent firmly in saying that this a for sure thing..like I said, I am just passing along information from a guy at work who I know has ties to some Magic brass.. take it all for what it is worth...whcihc is nothing at this point, just thought yall might find it interesting

quote:

Originally posted by The Dude Abides:

well, Fan-royos... The Dude is not one to have a source, but I was just told that CA isnt goin anywhere... atleast for the next month or so.. My "source" (not the magic insider 8-ball this time... and rather than call him my source, I will just call him a co-worker, as he really isnt a source at all... im getin off point here,so I digress).....

 

but, word on the street from high up in the Business Dev. side of the Magic Org.. is that a certain county commissioner will be placated by keeping him in town, atleast until the arena vote, word from my co-worker, who actually talked to the high up magic guy, is that she has pretty much directly told them that CA swings her vote...whether thats good business or not I'll leave that for you to decide, whether we should be building a team around a players ethnicity rather than skill set seems like garbage to me..

 

I will not stand 100 percent firmly in saying that this a for sure thing..like I said, I am just passing along information from a guy at work who I know has ties to some Magic brass.. take it all for what it is worth...whcihc is nothing at this point, just thought yall might find it interesting

Dude, I appreciate your contributions although we dont always agree. Yet this post implies something I dont like and that MarcAcres and I have discussed and agreed upon. The management will primordially base thir decisions on what benefits and makes the team win games. I have posted several times that my opinion was that carlos was not going anywhere because Vangundy considers he may be one of the PG's that can make his offense flow. Most of the posters are conviced that this is the game where he thrives at, then why the risk of bringing someone else when you have 3 potential PG's that may do the job and havent been given the chance. Vangundy will probably be sharing lots of minutes for them at the beginning of the season until he feels comfortable with one of them. The fact that Carlos can fill the stadium is more important to the Magic than these political intrigues. I have a feeling Carlos is going to have an excellent year for the benefit of all fans.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by ibonedteribell:

The fact that Carlos can fill the stadium is more important to the Magic than these political intrigues. i have a feeling Carlos is going to have an excellent year for the benefit of all fans.

 

The 2 kinda go hand and hand Ibone. If it's true what The Dude is posting, then it makes sense because filling the arena equals money for the organization and getting a new arena equals a whole lot of money for the organization. Both are extremely important.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by The Dude Abides:

well, Fan-royos... The Dude is not one to have a source, but I was just told that CA isnt goin anywhere... atleast for the next month or so.. My "source" (not the magic insider 8-ball this time... and rather than call him my source, I will just call him a co-worker, as he really isnt a source at all... im getin off point here,so I digress).....

 

but, word on the street from high up in the Business Dev. side of the Magic Org.. is that a certain county commissioner will be placated by keeping him in town, atleast until the arena vote, word from my co-worker, who actually talked to the high up magic guy, is that she has pretty much directly told them that CA swings her vote...whether thats good business or not I'll leave that for you to decide, whether we should be building a team around a players ethnicity rather than skill set seems like garbage to me..

 

I will not stand 100 percent firmly in saying that this a for sure thing..like I said, I am just passing along information from a guy at work who I know has ties to some Magic brass.. take it all for what it is worth...whcihc is nothing at this point, just thought yall might find it interesting

 

That is what worries me and is unfortunate that we may have to keep him based on ethnicity - based on last year he showed nothing - now that could change this year and I expect him to play better with Orlando or elsewhere, but I still can't get excited about him. Maybe as a backup he would be ok, but we already have a short point guard. I know the Arroyo fanatics don't like Jameer - mostly because he starts in front of Arroyo and Jameer didn't show anything last year either - but Jameer could play great and the Arroyo fanatics would still want him benched.

 

Anyway, I would like to see him traded if we can move him and go after a big if possible with extra cap space to go along with Lewis.

 

If Carlos stays and proves me wrong so be it - if he can show a lot more than last season that would be great, but he hasn't impressed me at all and I don't see the upside with him - again I could be proven wrong, but I don't think so right now and so far he hasn't shown anything to make me think differently.

 

Carlos was as negatively affected under Brian Hill as was Nelson. I just think Nelson has much more upside, but they both need to play much better than last season be it here or elsewhere.

 

I want Darko to stay because I think he is a player, not because he is or is not from Serbia. If Carlos were playing like Chauncy Billups I'd be screaming for him to start if he were behind Nelson, but he's not playing like Chauncy.

[Live or Die Magic 383]

I think the Magic are looking for anything that will help seal the Arena deal. Despite what Otis told Donovan, you know the Magic had the Arena deal in the back of their mind when they brought him in. If Donovan had stayed, Carlos would have been an afterthought from a arena/public relations standpoint. Sure, we have a large Hispanic population here, but it isn't as big as our Gator population.

 

With that ship having sailed, the Magic would be wise to protect Arroyo as a competitive investment on the court, and as a political investment on the arena front.

[ball junkie 277]

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

quote:

Originally posted by ibonedteribell:

The fact that Carlos can fill the stadium is more important to the Magic than these political intrigues. i have a feeling Carlos is going to have an excellent year for the benefit of all fans.

 

The 2 kinda go hand and hand Ibone. If it's true what The Dude is posting, then it makes sense because filling the arena equals money for the organization and getting a new arena equals a whole lot of money for the organization. Both are extremely important.

 

 

If this is the case, then when Vince Carter opts out as expected this weekend why doesn't Otis throw 20 million at him like MC suggested. I'm sure I don't need to tell you guys what Vince would do for selling tickets and putting people in the seats.

 

I don't know about you guys but July 1 is getting very close I'm starting to get antsy about the Magic possibilities.

 

I sure hope Otis has something up his sleeve. After the coaching fiasco we need something positive to happen in the Magic Kingdom.

 

I'm talking doubles, triples or better yet a home-run! Just using a little baseball terminiology.(lol)

 

It just seems as if a lot of other teams are involved in draft or trade scenarios to improve their roster and the Magic seem pretty quiet.

[Knappy 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Live or Die Magic:

I think the Magic are looking for anything that will help seal the Arena deal. Despite what Otis told Donovan, you know the Magic had the Arena deal in the back of their mind when they brought him in. If Donovan had stayed, Carlos would have been an afterthought from a arena/public relations standpoint. Sure, we have a large Hispanic population here, but it isn't as big as our Gator population.

 

With that ship having sailed, the Magic would be wise to protect Arroyo as a competitive investment on the court, and as a political investment on the arena front.

 

I could see the Magic keeping Arroyo one more season, but I wouldn't want that at the expense of having to trade Nelson - I would be very upset if Nelson flourished somewhere else and we let him go in order to keep a particular fan base happy.

 

It is different signing a Vince Carter to keep your fan base happy or a Chauncy Billups, but we don't have that here - Carlos is not an all star - so it is upsetting that they may be making decisions about the franchise concerning a career backup so far.

 

Could things change yes, but I don't think you make sacrafices to the team for him in order to appease fans. If Arroyo went crazy and was a stud then you make concessions, but so far that hasn't happened. Until we have someone really step up they are all on probation.

 

I can't stress it enough though that we had a unique situation last year with a total moron running our team that other teams didn't have to deal with.

 

I don't want to come across bashing Arroyo, because I think he has some game, but it is like you almost have to bash him to get some of the Arroyo fanatics to realize that he isn't Michael Jordan - you almost have to bash him to even get a glimmer of any ***** in his armor - he is not a God - he played very poorly last year and in Arroyo's defense - BHill was the main reason why.

 

I just think, as stated now for the 87th time, that Nelson has more upside, has a smaller contract and can be a player in a new system.

 

I also think Arroyo would play well under Van Gundy, but I don't get excited about him becoming a possible stud in this league - I don't see it. I think Jameer could become a stud in this league - not based on last year however. I would rate them similar based on play so far - Jameer I would slightly favor where others would favor Arroyo a little more.

 

Arroyo so far seems to pass a bit better and defend a bit better. Nelson seems to be able to score a bit better and shoot a little better.

 

Going forward - if you let them run I see Nelson being able to become a Stud and Arroyo would play better running as well.

 

Just looking 5 years ahead or even a year or two - who do you think will be better? I think Jameer could be a future All Star - I don't see that with Arroyo. I could be wrong, but Arroyo has not stood out above Jameer. I think Otis has the same opinion I do on Jameer, but he to would re-evaluate if Jameer isn't good next year.

 

And, if you remove Grant Hill - I think Jameer starts leading this team - I think that will be good - he defered to BHill calling plays and GHIll and I don't think he should have, but he had to. Others won't like this at all.

 

And, maybe Van Gundy will give Dooling the starting spot. He looks pretty good - good defender, very athlethic, better height, etc. but I see him as a good backup not the main go to guy.

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

quote:

Originally posted by ball junkie:

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Acres 3:16:

quote:

Originally posted by ibonedteribell:

The fact that Carlos can fill the stadium is more important to the Magic than these political intrigues. i have a feeling Carlos is going to have an excellent year for the benefit of all fans.

 

The 2 kinda go hand and hand Ibone. If it's true what The Dude is posting, then it makes sense because filling the arena equals money for the organization and getting a new arena equals a whole lot of money for the organization. Both are extremely important.

 

 

If this is the case, then when Vince Carter opts out as expected this weekend why doesn't Otis throw 20 million at him like MC suggested. I'm sure I don't need to tell you guys what Vince would do for selling tickets and putting people in the seats.

 

I don't know about you guys but July 1 is getting very close I'm starting to get antsy about the Magic possibilities.

 

I sure hope Otis has something up his sleeve. After the coaching fiasco we need something positive to happen in the Magic Kingdom.

 

I'm talking doubles, triples or better yet a home-run! Just using a little baseball terminiology.(lol)

 

It just seems as if a lot of other teams are involved in draft or trade scenarios to improve their roster and the Magic seem pretty quiet.

 

I don't know that any of this is true but while Vince would sell tickets, Carlos is part of an ethnic group that has considerable voting power in this area. That is not to say that Carlos is only here because of his ethnicity, Otis isn't going to keep a guy that can't play. I mean if Reece Gaines had been Hispanic I don't think we would be having this same discussion.

 

The other thing with Vince is 20 mill is a ton of money. If we have 17 mill in cap room and we need to clear 6-7 to sign Rashard and keep Darko than we would need to clear 10-11 to sign Vince at that number. That is a lot of money. If they are considering Rashard and Vince equal, then I don't think they are willing to go 4-5 mill more just for a bump at the box office.

[The Dude Abides 0]

^^^ and dont get me wrong guys - All I want it a good product out on the floor.

 

In my opinion politics, public relations, and business should not guide our team. My thinking is a superior product on the floor would accomplish the same thing.. which is a huge fanbase, community support and tix/merchandise sales... but in this world, Its not all peaches and creme. Its a sad fact that the business side of the game dictates some of our decisions. In a perfectly fair world, where unicorns dance and pigs fly - we would have this level playing field where "everyone gets a chance next year"... but, like I said. This is not the case, or the way to build a team...

 

If we can move anybody (except our untouchables), Im all for it.. I want to win...not be fair- and see who works out... Its not new news that I dont care for either Jameer Nelson or Carlos Arroyo - It has nothing personally to do with them or how many fans they have on this board... It has everything to do with their game.. We are looking at putting together a starting unit out there that has all the weapons we need.. We need a guy who isnt thinkin in their own head they need be another weapon and to make SportsCenter on a nightly basis. We need a floor general who can direct those weapons, and has an outside shot to keep defenses honest. neither CA or JN fit that role.

 

And to rehash just about every arguement on this board.. whats the need to have two of the same guy out there, personally I dont want either of them out there as a starting PG. Is it to be fair and see what they can do?? Eff that.. Ive seen what both of them can do and IMHO, its not much in the way of a true PG and the type of player we should be using at the point.

 

Whatever is best for the team, and produces the best for us. is what Im for as a Magic fan, and not a fan of a player.. If we can use either of these guys to get our team into a better position, I see that as being way more valuable to the Magic than anything that CA or JN will give us next year.