NittanyBuc 757 Report post Posted June 9, 2011 Nobody said he was a DPOY. When it comes to offense though he's one of the best in the league. There is no way it's a lateral move your nuts if you think that. Learn to read. I said lateral in terms of defense, meaning he's just as good defensively as J Rich at best. I just think Ellis on Wade would be a massacre. J Rich can at least put a body on someone at 225 lbs. while Ellis is only 185 lbs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jacklj13 16 Report post Posted June 9, 2011 great players play defense because it is part of them and it is a big part of winning. ellis will never be a good defender because it not in his make up. with him and nelson the magic would have the worst defensive guards in the nba. at leasy jj is bigger and gives you a solid effort on defense, is much smarter, and does what it takes to win. not to mention he is a solid guy and fills the seats at amway. plus ellis wil not get 20 shots a night and his average will drop. i am all for getting a scorer but j-rich and jj are better for this team than ellis. get someone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StaySharp 5 Report post Posted June 9, 2011 great players play defense because it is part of them and it is a big part of winning. ellis will never be a good defender because it not in his make up. with him and nelson the magic would have the worst defensive guards in the nba. at leasy jj is bigger and gives you a solid effort on defense, is much smarter, and does what it takes to win. not to mention he is a solid guy and fills the seats at amway. plus ellis wil not get 20 shots a night and his average will drop. i am all for getting a scorer but j-rich and jj are better for this team than ellis. get someone else. I applaud the boldness of your statements but I disagree. Ellis can become a good defender. Defense can be taught, developed, sculpted, whatever. JJ Redick was considered the worst defender on the team early in his career and last season, Stan was mentioning him as one of the best perimeter defenders on the squad. I can question the valididy of that statement, but to his credit we didn't have much of a perimeter presence as we had Dwight on the interior (thus a lack of perimeter defense). Help defense has been paramount in our defensive scheme over the past few years -- if JJ can funnel an opponent to Dwight for a contested shot, I think Monta can as well. He also has the speed for quick close-outs, something teams always value. He just needs to put in the effort, which he'll have incentive to do so if he actually comes to ORL. Ellis could bring a new dynamic to this team with quickness and an attacking approach in terms of scoring. We need change, we lost to the freaking Atlanta Hawks (no knock on them, but if we can't keep up with them, how do we win a series against the Bulls, Heat, etc.). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fultz4thewin 2,464 Report post Posted June 9, 2011 Learn to read. I said lateral in terms of defense, meaning he's just as good defensively as J Rich at best. I just think Ellis on Wade would be a massacre. J Rich can at least put a body on someone at 225 lbs. while Ellis is only 185 lbs. Marion and Stevenson (both very good defenders) has been a massacre for wade so... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYCmagic 15 Report post Posted June 9, 2011 Learn to read. I said lateral in terms of defense, meaning he's just as good defensively as J Rich at best. I just think Ellis on Wade would be a massacre. J Rich can at least put a body on someone at 225 lbs. while Ellis is only 185 lbs. If you watched the hawks series you'd know that defense didn't lose the series. It was a lack of a solid 2nd scorer like Ellis would be. J-Rich was a ghost in the hawk series besides one game. Here's hoping he ends up in Orlando. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NittanyBuc 757 Report post Posted June 10, 2011 If you watched the hawks series you'd know that defense didn't lose the series. It was a lack of a solid 2nd scorer like Ellis would be. J-Rich was a ghost in the hawk series besides one game. Here's hoping he ends up in Orlando. I did watch the series. The Hawks aren't a superior offensive team (21st in the league for offensive efficiency), which is why I'm still not thrilled with our defense on that series. Giving up 103 and 88 twice to ATL in a series is far from impressive, especially in the playoffs. Granted those 3 losses, as well as the game 6 loss, were all close games and were one basket away from a different outcome, this ATL team should've been held to the 83-84 range. Credit Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford for shooting out of their minds the entire series. I realize that our offensive output was far from expected, but realize that it's playoffs and the game slows down tremendously. After the trade, we upped our transition and fast break offense, which is greatly limited in the post season. My thing with Ellis is that while he provides a much needed offensive spark, we're giving up size and defense in return. I want you to think about a backcourt of Jameer Nelson, Monta Ellis, and Monta Ellis for a second against the same lineup that ATL used on us- PG - Crawford SG - Johnson SF - Smith PF - Horford C - Collins. We still can't beat this team, IMO. Joe Johnson is 4 inches taller and 55 lbs. heavier than Monta. There's absolutely no way he can stop him defensively. Johnson will be obliged to post him up all day. I have no issue with Monta if we shed Jameer or Arenas and get defensive wings to surround him with. This way we have flexibility at the 1 an the 2. However, Iwould feel more comfortable if we were to get a bigger wing who plays solid defense, ala Andre Iguodala (which won't happen) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jagsfreak27 44 Report post Posted June 10, 2011 I did watch the series. The Hawks aren't a superior offensive team (21st in the league for offensive efficiency), which is why I'm still not thrilled with our defense on that series. Giving up 103 and 88 twice to ATL in a series is far from impressive, especially in the playoffs. Granted those 3 losses, as well as the game 6 loss, were all close games and were one basket away from a different outcome, this ATL team should've been held to the 83-84 range. Credit Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford for shooting out of their minds the entire series. I realize that our offensive output was far from expected, but realize that it's playoffs and the game slows down tremendously. After the trade, we upped our transition and fast break offense, which is greatly limited in the post season. My thing with Ellis is that while he provides a much needed offensive spark, we're giving up size and defense in return. I want you to think about a backcourt of Jameer Nelson, Monta Ellis, and Monta Ellis for a second against the same lineup that ATL used on us- PG - Crawford SG - Johnson SF - Smith PF - Horford C - Collins. We still can't beat this team, IMO. Joe Johnson is 4 inches taller and 55 lbs. heavier than Monta. There's absolutely no way he can stop him defensively. Johnson will be obliged to post him up all day. I have no issue with Monta if we shed Jameer or Arenas and get defensive wings to surround him with. This way we have flexibility at the 1 an the 2. However, Iwould feel more comfortable if we were to get a bigger wing who plays solid defense, ala Andre Iguodala (which won't happen) I absolutely agree with everything you said (as usual) however I caution against building to beat a particular team (see Cavs 2009 offseason). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NittanyBuc 757 Report post Posted June 10, 2011 I absolutely agree with everything you said (as usual) however I caution against building to beat a particular team (see Cavs 2009 offseason). I don't think I came across as intended. What I was trying to say was that any team that goes with a big backcourt, for example Atlanta, will abuse a backcourt of Nelson/Arenas and Ellis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicman28 295 Report post Posted June 10, 2011 I absolutely agree with everything you said (as usual) however I caution against building to beat a particular team (see Cavs 2009 offseason). That or building a duplicate team like one that just won the ship. Dwights our number 1 and we need to build around him our way and the right way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bauncey Chillups 288 Report post Posted June 10, 2011 Our (hilariously embarrassing) inability to hit open jumpshots is what murdered us in the Atlanta series Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PennysRUs 5 Report post Posted June 10, 2011 Do people forget that Monta can play the 1? I know i'm just a lurker here and don't post much, but Monta can play the point and have a scorers mentality... He can't be any worse than Jameer is. My dream (semi-realistic) scenario would be trading for Monta (especially for the rumored asking price), trade Jameer (No one will take Arenas' contract) to Charlotte and take on a bad contract with the TPE (Diop) and pick up Sjax and Tyrus Thomas. Then it would be nice to try to sign Tay or a defensive SF. A team with a great perimeter defender and decent scorer, (SJax) one of the best scorers (top 15 in the league scoring wise - Monta obviously) and the best center in the league (Dwight). Thomas is a decent player at the 4 too and I think he could be really tough down low with with Dwight. Then with a guy like Tay, we have 3 great defenders, a 2nd scoring option for Dwight, and Thomas although not a great PF, he's definitely talented and could learn to be a better player with Dwight by his side. Again, I'm not a huge poster on the board and I'm not saying this could happen, but that is my dream (semi realistic) scenario. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emory889 353 Report post Posted June 10, 2011 He has the size and speed to play the point but he doesn't have the court vision or the instincts to do so. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
