Could be the end for a lot of guys

[Catman 380]

No, because you're looking at this as an execution problem, whereas I'm seeing it simply as a roster problem. It doesn't matter how well Turk, Jameer and company execute SVG's game plan so as long as the other team has no problem figuring out what's going to happen next. Once the roles are identified, our offense is terribly predictable. It's:

 

1. Turk/Jameer handle the high pick and roll, everyone else stands around and waits for a pass.

 

2. Give it to Dwight. Wait for a pass.

 

One thing about last season's team that goes unnoticed was the role of Matt Barnes. He was the ONLY guy in recent magic memory that consistently cut to the basket. Vince occasionally did so as well. Once we got Q, spot-up shooting became a necessity, I guess.

 

Thank you. That is what I am trying to say. Hedo did not get the easy looks he got 2 years back. It is not just because he is not as good..teams adjusted. It's real obvious to see the angles they cut off the passing lanes compared to in 09 for example. Less teams double teamed Dwight as well. I also do not think firing a 3 from the corner and not crashing the boards half the game is that high percentage.

[God Hates Otis Smith 153]

How come nobody ever talks about upgrading the 4? I would honestly target Andrea Bargnani, and have him be our new Lewis, his flaws would be well protected by Dwight, and he could stretch the floor, but is also a threat to put the ball on the floor and score.

 

He is a proven 36-40 percent 3 pt shooter, he could give us 18/7 easily and would be a great compliment, IMO our power forward play SUCKED last year against GOOD teams. Bass and Anderson were exposed alot.

[Captain Hindsight 50]

I'm not sure what to think right now. The past 1 1/2 pages have been strictly about basketball. We're definitely due for a fake tweet story, a youtube video, or a random post about juice boxes and apple sauce.

[BMP 424]

No, because you're looking at this as an execution problem, whereas I'm seeing it simply as a roster/offense problem. It doesn't matter how well Turk, Jameer and company execute SVG's game plan so as long as the other team has no problem figuring out what's going to happen next. Once the roles are identified, our offense is terribly predictable. It's:

 

1. Turk/Jameer handle the high pick and roll, everyone else stands around and waits for a pass.

 

2. Give it to Dwight. Wait for a pass.

 

One thing about last season's team that goes unnoticed was the role of Matt Barnes. He was the ONLY guy in recent magic memory that consistently cut to the basket. Vince occasionally did so as well. Once we got Q, spot-up shooting became a necessity, I guess.

 

 

It's the same thing. . . I said those players weren't able to run it well, meaning a player problem, meaning personnel problem, meaning roster problem. . . and it certainly matters if they execute it or not. . . problem is a lot of times they can't because they're not athletic enough, so that isn't to fault the system but the players. The amount of 1/4 pick and rolls that went to waste were incredible. And these were sets the Magic ran constantly. The problem was that Bradon Bass would completely break the play every single time. If we had a guy like KG, hell even Brad Miller, we'd be able to get something out of those plays. It always always led to an open mid-range shot or Dwight with his man sealed under the rim. Unfortunately Bass sucked at massing that pass as well as knowing when to shoot and when not to shoot.

 

 

 

The Magic also ran tons of baseline curls for JRich and Redick. JRich seemed to often times just jog through sets and get by so that Dwight could get the ball posted up, when he should've been curling off those screens hard every time either for a layup or a pass back to a rolling Dwight.

 

 

Which goes back to my point. . . this is a personnel problem far more than a system problem.

 

How come nobody ever talks about upgrading the 4? I would honestly target Andrea Bargnani, and have him be our new Lewis, his flaws would be well protected by Dwight, and he could stretch the floor, but is also a threat to put the ball on the floor and score.

 

He is a proven 36-40 percent 3 pt shooter, he could give us 18/7 easily and would be a great compliment, IMO our power forward play SUCKED last year against GOOD teams. Bass and Anderson were exposed alot.

 

 

Problem is Bargs is one of the worst defenders in the league, and also a terrible rebounder (for his size)

[Milzy 2]

Just letting you know i didn't take any offense, to the comment Catman and your right I knew feedback would be both positive and negative it's why I put it out there in the first place.

Sorry if the post was too long if I have anymore suggestion I will break them up into different posts.

With my suggestion, I would only ever consider it if Dwight was happy to commit to the extension for two years currently on the table and be willing to have year to transition into a side he pretty much help picks.

I know that next year could be painful but in a worst case scenario that would allow a high draft pick in what is going to be a stacked draft year at this stage.

 

Thanks very much

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

How come nobody ever talks about upgrading the 4? I would honestly target Andrea Bargnani, and have him be our new Lewis, his flaws would be well protected by Dwight, and he could stretch the floor, but is also a threat to put the ball on the floor and score.

 

He is a proven 36-40 percent 3 pt shooter, he could give us 18/7 easily and would be a great compliment, IMO our power forward play SUCKED last year against GOOD teams. Bass and Anderson were exposed alot.

 

Because we need a four that can do one of two (or ideally, both) things well, assuming he's a good shooter already:

 

1. Pass

 

2. Play good team defense.

 

Bargnani offers neither of these. If we're going to stick with the spread four, we'd be better off just allowing Ryan to develop.

[BMP 424]

If the team doesn't try to get cap space, I'll really be pulling for Buike, Hayes, Butler, Chandler, Prince, and Iggy. Would be really nice to have some good to great defenders/hustle guys that aren't liabilities offensively. If the Magic get Ellis (like rumored) he must absolutely come with Iggy and maybe even Andre Miller/Camby.

 

 

goddamn it i can't wait any longer

 

 

 

oh yeah, and with all that said, I fully expect us to trade for Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, and sign Dan Gadzuric

 

[Aussie Magic fan 18]

Because we need a four that can do one of two (or ideally, both) things well, assuming he's a good shooter already:

 

1. Pass

 

2. Play good team defense.

 

Bargnani offers neither of these. If we're going to stick with the spread four, we'd be better off just allowing Ryan to develop.

 

 

David West would be perfect

[E27 33]

What about DeShawn Stevenson? I would love to get him back and I do believe he'll be a free agent. He'd bring defense, crazy, and a good 3-point shot.

[BMP 424]

David West would be perfect

 

Can you imagine if trade rumors popped up in regards to the Magic and Hornets? Hell, say they know the two teams involved but aren't sure of the players involved. . . I can't even begin to think what would happen to this board and the Chris Paul thread. . . and what people would do once they found out the trade was for David West and not CP3.

[ThisIsTheYear 241]

It's the same thing. . . I said those players weren't able to run it well, meaning a player problem, meaning personnel problem, meaning roster problem. . . and it certainly matters if they execute it or not. . . problem is a lot of times they can't because they're not athletic enough, so that isn't to fault the system but the players.

 

How does an offensive game plan predicated on having someone consistently beat his man off the drive not take any blame for their personnel's inability to, well, beat his man off the drive?! As an offensive coordinator, it's your job to develop a system that caters to the strengths of your roster. At what point does SVG take some blame for sticking with a system so heavily dependent on personnel we clearly don't have. Could this offense improve if we had someone of Wade or Manu's caliber running the pick and roll? Perhaps, but we don't, and any system that relies on a past his prime Hedo Turkoglu to run roughly a third of your plays, isn't one destined for great results.

 

 

The amount of 1/4 pick and rolls that went to waste were incredible. And these were sets the Magic ran constantly. The problem was that Bradon Bass would completely break the play every single time. If we had a guy like KG, hell even Brad Miller, we'd be able to get something out of those plays. It always always led to an open mid-range shot or Dwight with his man sealed under the rim. Unfortunately Bass sucked at massing that pass as well as knowing when to shoot and when not to shoot.

 

Again, it's a two-way street. If Bass is so incompetent, then it's on SVG to find a more dependable option on the bench like, well, that other PF who plays eerily similar to Shard.

 

JRich seemed to often times just jog through sets and get by so that Dwight could get the ball posted up, when he should've been curling off those screens hard every time either for a layup or a pass back to a rolling Dwight.

 

Oh, come on. That curling pass was delivered maybe once or twice throughout the course of J-Rich's Magic tenure. What incentive is there for the guy to cut to the basket when he knows there's little to no possibility that he'll receive a pass? It was like empty movement. The ball's going to Dwight, regardless.

 

 

Which goes back to my point. . . this is a personnel problem far more than a system problem.

 

Do you believe this was a personnel problem last season against the Celtics in the playoffs? I mean, we had the ideal roster for the gameplan. Jameer/Shard were thriving, Vince was capable, Barnes provided the glue-guy role, and Dwight was Dwight. Why, exactly, did Boston put a stranglehold on us, then? Simply put, they saw the pick and rolls, were able to switch off them effectively without giving up any kind of mismatch, and the rest was history. Like I said, at some point, the offense needs to bear some blame. Otherwise, we'll always be reliant on getting better players than what we had before.

[Catman 380]

Right, but that's more on Jameer/Hedo/Carter not getting it done than anything else. Just last year we were the #2 offense in the league. The offense just sucks when our guards/forwards don't do their job, but that's more on personnel than the system itself.

 

The Spread P&R has never won an NBA title. Titles are won the in the paint every single year. They are balanced by 2-3 guys who can bomb from 3, but not with the focus on that. Geting the ball in the paint is a higher % play because you can draw fouls easier as well. Something that people forget when they just look at %s.

 

Let's be real. We are running a college offense and it isn't working. It worked in 09 because Garnett did not play in the series. I hate to say it but we all know it's true.