Has SVG failed the Magic? OR Management? OR players?

[The Ryan Anderbads 27]

You really think it is all players and nothing to do with SVG? Look at our starting five from our 2009 NBA Finals team. The four playing with Dwight were Rashard Lewis/Hedo Turkoglu/Courtney Lee/Rafer Alston. Are any of them great players? No, the only one to be named to an All Star team was Shard who has gone twice in a 10+ year NBA career, and he's never been a guy you can give the ball to in ISO situations and have him score at will. Stan has never had a guy who you can just give the ball to and have him break down defenses and score big on the perimeter to go with Dwight. The closest he had was a washed up Vince Carter who was inconsistent with it and was nowhere to be found when we needed him most. Stan brought in the spacing offensive system to give Dwight room to work with inside and shooters space to shoot from outside because he couldn't just give guys on the perimeter the ball and have them take over games offensively. People like to complain about shooting so many threes, but let's face it we don't have a LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Carmelo, etc. who can dominate games offensively on the perimeter. He's getting the most out of what we have had to work with. Dwight has never played with a legitimate #2 star and we still are contending for championships because of the offensive system allowing us to get the most out of what we have and his team defenses making us one of the league's top defenses year in and year out.

 

Let met get this straight before I answer this. Stan Van Gundy has been a good coach. BUT he has not been great. He is the best available right now, he knows this team better than anyone else.

 

Now, what I am concerned about is whether Stan can lead us to a championship. Not getting us to the finals, not getting past the ECF, but actually winning a championship.

 

As I said earlier, our run to the finals in 08-09 was arguably one of the easiest routes to the NBA finals we could have ever dreamed for. I don't know how much credit SVG can be given for that.

 

Let me talk about something else regarding "records".

 

Doc Rivers was considered by most a "mediocre" coach by the majority of the orlando fan-base and of course management as well. He went on to win a ring with Boston and is now regarded as a "great" coach.

 

Let me ask you this then, is Doc Rivers a great coach or are the players MAKING him a great coach?

[Miller4Prez66 545]

I never said Lee was a slouch, but his D is hardly why we we won the East that year. I also never said anything about Q equaling a championship, but he's really no worse on D than some of the other mediocre wings we've had over the years.

 

I also find it funny that you're calling me a physic when you are the one running around telling us the Magic won't win a title and can't win one under Stan.

 

The whole team thing is different with football. Offensive players have no control over the defense and vice versa. The Dungy Bucs had a championship caliber defense and a putrid offense. His inability to produce even a solid offense cost him his job. That's why the Glazers went after Gruden, because he had a reputation of being a brilliant offensive coach. As it turns out, he sure as hell wasn't. But at least he managed a solid enough offense for one ring before turning One Buc into a retirement home.

[FlawlessVictory 26]

But at least he managed a solid enough offense for one ring before turning One Buc into a retirement home.

Ouch!!! :panicworker:

[Babir_9 92]

SVG is a very stubborn person and that affects his coaching. 3 times his team was beaten by a stronger, tougher, taller teams. First it was Detroit Pistons, then L.A. Lakers and last season Boston Celtics. They all were doing the same thing. Single cover for Dwight for most of the games and closing out on shooters. He never learned a lesson, he started this season again with Rashard at PF and only now we finally have a true PF alongside Howard, still undersized though...

Another problem is our offense, for whatever reason SVG thinks that the best strategy is to surround Howard with shooters and shoot almost 30 threes a game. You never win a championship playing like that, it never happened in NBA history...

I was always thinking that Otis is a good GM because he could get rid off Steve Francis contract, but he had a few terrible trades/decisions. Cook/Evans trade for Ariza was a huge mistake. Drafting Fran Vasquez another one. Signing Lewis to max deal, when nobody in the league could offer him so much money. And looks like the latest trade for Arenas was not successful as well, he has more years, money on the deal and brings absolutely nothing right now. Lewis could be used off the bench with the same or even more success than Gilbert right now. And if J.Richardson won't be resigned then trade with the Suns won't be that good as well, by the way we can lose promising Clark from that trade as well.

of course people can say we are competing right now, going deep in playoffs, 50 season wins and ect. but we have a second highest payroll in the league, one of the most dominant big man in the basketball world, so we have to win a championship, we just can't be happy with some playoff success anymore...

[Aussie Magic fan 18]

Haven't got time to read all the past posts, but i will say Management is the problem. We seem to sign/trade for players that seem to be just past their prime.

[GhostAnime 50]

On the offensive end, when shots don't fall, the Magic just have very little efficiency when Howard is either constantly getting fouled, denied the ball, or just isn't converting. We tend to sum up these nights as "Well, we missed open shots" but that excuse can't work in the playoffs. It didn't work against Boston. There will always be those moments where you just miss shots depending on the type of defense you're facing, and the Magic can't always hope to hit their jumpshots in order to beat teams. If they're not falling, there's got to be a way to get some easy ones, and the Magic don't have that type of isolation game.

 

On the defensive end, I've said this for a while. Howard is having a lot of pressure on him defensively. No punch Bass or Anderson because they are very good team defenders, but you cannot replace shot blocking. The Magic will face large teams soon, and if you draw Howard away from the basket, there is almost no stopping them in the post or running to the rim.

 

You also have to wonder if Howard is getting tired? i've never seen him 3/13 from the line, but Howard carries the defense more than the average center. Can we expect him to excel at both ends on SOME nights? Fine. Can we expect it out of him for four series? ... Uh, no.

[Manu Ginobili 61]

Let met get this straight before I answer this. Stan Van Gundy has been a good coach. BUT he has not been great. He is the best available right now, he knows this team better than anyone else.

 

Now, what I am concerned about is whether Stan can lead us to a championship. Not getting us to the finals, not getting past the ECF, but actually winning a championship.

 

As I said earlier, our run to the finals in 08-09 was arguably one of the easiest routes to the NBA finals we could have ever dreamed for. I don't know how much credit SVG can be given for that.

 

Let me talk about something else regarding "records".

 

Doc Rivers was considered by most a "mediocre" coach by the majority of the orlando fan-base and of course management as well. He went on to win a ring with Boston and is now regarded as a "great" coach.

 

Let me ask you this then, is Doc Rivers a great coach or are the players MAKING him a great coach?

 

I agree with this. SVG is good, not great. His mistakes rotation-wise in the 09 Finals (that even he recognized) were a big cause for the defeat. The failure to acknowledge early that the Lakers were overpowering us in the boards, and not putting Gortat with Dwight (until G5) was bad.

 

Otis is good, not great. He chose Dwight. He picked Jameer. He got something good for Francis' leftovers. He got players with good potential (Gortat, Bass, Anderson).

 

He also gave Ariza, went after a proven loser in Carter, gave Shard too much money, and now he got a washed up Arenas.

 

The team is good, not great. Good enough to win 50+ games every season. Good enough to win a chunk of games in the road. Good enough to beat inferior teams in the playoffs.

 

Not good enough when they put size on us. Not good enough when facing teams that can defend Dwight one on one. Not good enough to make key free throws at the end of the game.

 

We are good, not good enough.

 

Blame:

 

SVG: 33,3%

Otis: 33,3%

Team: 33,3%

[Magicman28 295]

I don't think either have failed per say. I think they have their faults.

 

Otis: Drafting Fran. Signing Rashard to that amount of money. Not resigning Hedo but trade for him 2 years later imo was kinda dumbfounded. Its possible that trading for Arenas could either be good or bad in the long run. Theres definitely things to question. His biggest failure is not being able to put another all star around Dwight but thats an easier said then done thing to do.

 

SVG: Again, he really has been good. His faults is sometimes he gets to stubborn and lets his frustration get in the way but all in all hes a pretty good coach. My only gripe is this new attitude he has. Before the game he downplayed the Heat game saying its just 1 of 82 and I just don't agree with that. I understand its not THE game but you gotta be realer then that. I think it sets a tone and we came out with no focus. Sometimes I miss the old Stan but I think a lot of it comes from upper management. I think they want him to not be so frustrated so its hard to tell if thats really Stan. I don't need to hear this "rah rah" speech on beating Miami but if our coach is downplaying this game, then definitely the players are and you just don't do that when you make remarks the way they did in the off season.

 

Players: They have their issues. Still refuse to see the game defensively first. Until we start doing that, we're not winning anything.

 

So my point is, theres no failure. We're still a good team but theres blame to be spread around why were not a championship caliber team yet.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

^ I agree with SVG part. I'm not feeling Mr. Nice Guy, I want the old "I'm gonna rip somebody a new one" Stan back.

 

"I’m not happy with the way we played the rest of the game, but the comeback was good and legit.’’ - Stan Postgame

 

C'mon now, you were down 85-64 and the Heat for all intents and purposes shut things down.

[Franchero MVP 391]

Before the game he downplayed the Heat game saying its just 1 of 82 and I just don't agree with that.

 

Are you serious? Do you really think that Stan didnt take this game seriously? Especially the fact that they are in our division? ESPECIALLY the fact that we could potentially face them in the playoffs? ESPECIALLY at the fact that they are his former employers?

 

Stan just said that to the media because he knew there was a good chance we could lose this game, especially with our injuries, current state of play, and morale.

 

We lost, right? Imagine if he was like "ZOMG THIS IS TEH BIGGEST GAME EVERZZZZ!!!", how would it look now to the team? to the fans? to ESPN and the other media outlets?

[Magicman28 295]

Are you serious? Do you really think that Stan didnt take this game seriously? Especially the fact that they are in our division? ESPECIALLY the fact that we could potentially face them in the playoffs? ESPECIALLY at the fact that they are his former employers?

 

Stan just said that to the media because he knew there was a good chance we could lose this game, especially with our injuries, current state of play, and morale. Imagine if he was like "ZOMG THIS IS TEH BIGGEST GAME EVERZZZZ!!!", how would it look now to the team? to the fans? to ESPN and the other media outlets?

 

 

 

Did you read the rest of what I said? Your post is filled with overreaction.

 

BTW, if your a coach and you feel like you have a good chance to lose this game just because Bass was out, then shows the lack of confidence in the rest of your team. BTW, I don't think Stan felt that way. I think your completely ridiculous for saying that.

[BMP 424]

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