Hollinger/ Bucher scoop - Trade talk thread

[Miller4Prez66 545]

Muprhy is in Avery's doghouse for a reason. Besides, he's shooting god awful numbers across the board. 29% from the field? 15% from three? 63% from the line? Even at his best, he's a poor man's Shard who everyone likes to ***** about.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

Now tell me why New Jersey would do this. . .

 

 

Also, I don't remember, but doesn't Gortat have the right to deny a trade? Or was that only for a certain period of time? Because if he still has that ability, I doubt he'd be for it.

 

Favors is more of a 4, and Lopez is NOT a defensive presence in the paint.

 

Their wings are the most inconsistent bunch, and none of them are great defenders. He'd easily start over Outlaw or James.

 

I'm not saying this is the be all, end all deal. Or that either team would like it. I'm just saying it's an option, and not the craziest one out there.

 

And Miller, seriously, the guy HAS BARELY PLAYED. Look at his career numbers you doof. OH NO BUT I WANNA TAKE THE 11 GAME SPOT MINUTES HE'S PLAYED AND SUMMARIZE A PLAYERS CAREER WITH THOSE LOLOLOLOLOL :svgsad:

 

I'm sorry I just miss jec.

[BMP 424]

Favors is more of a 4, and Lopez is NOT a defensive presence in the paint.

 

Their wings are the most inconsistent bunch, and none of them are great defenders. He'd easily start over Outlaw or James.

 

I'm not saying this is the be all, end all deal. Or that either team would like it. I'm just saying it's an option, and not the craziest one out there.

 

And Miller, seriously, the guy HAS BARELY PLAYED. Look at his career numbers you doof. OH NO BUT I WANNA TAKE THE 11 GAME SPOT MINUTES HE'S PLAYED AND SUMMARIZE A PLAYERS CAREER WITH THOSE LOLOLOLOLOL :svgsad:

 

I'm sorry I just miss jec.

 

 

Still, Lopez is a LOT better than Gortat and they'd be stupid to sacrifice Lopez' minutes for Gortat. I guess he could play some minutes at the four but I'm going a bit too far because if it happened I wouldn't really care where Gortat played, just saying that if he still had that trade permission **** that he probably wouldn't go for it.

 

 

Also, with that trade we find the biggest logjam at PF ever and no capable backup Cs. Oh, and have four PFs but 0 that can play defense.

 

 

I think Murphy's not bad, basically a rich man's Ryan Anderson. TWill could definitely be a stud if he stopped being a headcase. But the problem with that trade is that we're left with no backup Cs and way too many PFs.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

Still, Lopez is a LOT better than Gortat and they'd be stupid to sacrifice Lopez' minutes for Gortat. I guess he could play some minutes at the four but I'm going a bit too far because if it happened I wouldn't really care where Gortat played, just saying that if he still had that trade permission **** that he probably wouldn't go for it.

 

 

Also, with that trade we find the biggest logjam at PF ever and no capable backup Cs. Oh, and have four PFs but 0 that can play defense.

 

 

I think Murphy's not bad, basically a rich man's Ryan Anderson. TWill could definitely be a stud if he stopped being a headcase. But the problem with that trade is that we're left with no backup Cs and way too many PFs.

 

Eh. Murphy could swing at the 5, or we sign a guy off the streets. It's what? 12 or so minutes a game on a normal evening that Dwight is out of the game.

[Ibn Battuta 127]

You want to pay 8m for a backup point guard?

 

it's not like we'd pay him that much anyway, half his salary will have been paid by that time, and he's a team option next year. I like his ironman status considering Jameer's history. It's a decent option, considering Williams is playing backup duty at the moment (unless Duhon is injured).

[Miller4Prez66 545]

Jareth, Troy Murphy isn't getting minutes for a reason. A guy who's struggling to find consistent minutes with the Nets is not our answer. If you want a trade, it's for a three or a two who can score. I don't see much out there that actually makes us better.

[ball junkie 277]

The list of media doubters is growing as the lack of quality wins grows....this time from Royce Young of CBS Sports:

 

THE BIG ONE: DWIGHT NEEDS HELP

 

2) The Magic need another scorer badly. Not to take anything away from the Blazers' defensive discipline and keep in mind most of the Magic roster is still battling a bit of the flu, but all of this was really aided by the fact the Magic can turn into a painfully one-dimensional team. The Blazers made a lot of that happen by taking away the drive and kick and forcing Orlando to work 20 seconds on the offensive end.

 

Portland was content letting Howard do his work in the post, rarely sending a double to help. Howard played really, really well but it's clear he's not the early decade Shaq. Early Decade Shaq would've had 50 in a game like this. His team could've just fed the post every time and relied on him to score. Howard doesn't have that ability. But then again, we're talking about Shaq, one of the three best centers ever.

 

Howard scored 26 points in the first half and finished with a season-high 39, but finished the game 2-8 from the field. Again, Portland let Howard do his work early and that led to a big Magic lead, but later in the game when things tightened up, Orlando just didn't have a clear option. The Magic went almost seven minutes in the fourth quarter without a field goal.

 

And the thing is, Orlando was determined to get the ball into Howard and his new and improved post game. But that meant they bypassed their bread and butter pick and roll. Again, Howard's not a consistent post scorer (yet). So there has to be an option for him to kick out to when things get shut down. Orlando can get away with this stuff against mediocre defenses, but against a group like the Blazers, everything gets exposed.

 

So again, it comes back to the help Howard needs. Vince Carter, Nelson, J.J. Redick -- someone -- had to step up and be able to score 10 fourth quarter points. 2008 Hedo Turkoglu was that guy for Orlando. Instead, the Magic suffered as their possessions were strung out, most of the time ending up with a long, contested jumper or a forced shot in the post. The next high scorer beside Howard was Lewis with 11. I think that says things well.

 

Is Gilbert Arenas the answer? Maybe. But at one point the TNT crew had Magic general manager Otis Smith standing, watching his unit toil away with yet another empty possession. And Smith had to be thinking about getting Howard some help. Clearly the team is an upper tier squad. They'll win 50 games in their sleep. But to win a title, they need help. It's going to be a risk, but it might be worth it for the potential reward.

 

 

http://nba-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/26351504

[BMP 424]

Jareth, Troy Murphy isn't getting minutes for a reason. A guy who's struggling to find consistent minutes with the Nets is not our answer. If you want a trade, it's for a three or a two who can score. I don't see much out there that actually makes us better.

 

 

I'd rather see a guard/forward who's more of a play maker than a scorer, a guy that can do basically everything Jameer does on the offensive end. I think that would be a LOT more beneficial to the team than a guy like Kevin Martin who's basically strictly a scorer and can't help the team in another way.

 

 

 

I also wouldn't be too opposed of either replacing Lewis or Carter in the SL with a good defender that can hit the open shot. Not enough balls to go around with Jameer being the only play maker it becomes tough. I understand tonight's game was lost defensively but it's not exactly just about tonight. Oh yeah, and I want to see Lewis in the high post with some triangle sets. Oh, and I want prime Bird.

 

 

 

With all that being said, "want" isn't enough. This team doesn't really have the pieces to bring in a game changer and I'm opposed to making a trade just to make a trade.

[ball junkie 277]

Interesting stuff from Zach Lowe of Sports Illustrated.com:

 

Time for Orlando to make a move?

 

We’re a quarter of way through the season, and the Orlando Magic are showing signs of concern. They’re a below-average offensive team. Granted, they’re not far below average; they have scored about 106.3 points per 100 possessions – half a point below the league’s average rate – and they are tied with Boston with the league’s stingiest defense.

 

But it’s very hard to win a title with a league-average offense. Since 1990, only eight of the 42 teams that have made the NBA Finals have done so with an offense that didn’t rank at least a half point above the league average in points per 100 possessions, according to Basketball-Reference. Only two of those teams — the 2003-04 Pistons and the 1993-94 Rockets — won the title, though the Celtics came close last season.

 

Orlando had the league’s third-best offense last season, so this drop is huge and surprising, and it has Magic writers asking whether it is time to make a trade for a perimeter scorer. The Magic have the best big man in the game, but when teams are able to cover Dwight Howard with one defender (as Boston did in the playoffs last season and the Trail Blazers did in their easy win over Orlando on Thursday) and neutralize Howard in pick-and-roll situations, the Magic go through dangerous scoring droughts. Evan Dunlap at Orlando Pinstriped Post has already reported that the Magic have made inquiries about Gilbert Arenas, and on Friday he threw out some other possibilities – O.J. Mayo, Lou Williams, Andre Miller and others.

 

The Magic are well-stocked to make a trade. Most of Vince Carter’s contract for next season is not guaranteed, and the Magic can afford to part with either Brandon Bass, Ryan Anderson or Marcin Gortat. All three have appeal around the league.

 

 

A key question to answer before a shakeup: What, exactly, is wrong with Orlando’s offense? In terms of its structure, there is little difference between what Orlando is doing this year and what it has done in prior years under Stan Van Gundy. It’s taking a ton of threes (third-most in the league), converting a high percentage of shots at the rim and avoiding the dreaded long two-pointers. There have been changes on the margins — more time for Bass, more mid-range jumpers from Howard — but this is basically the same offense that has blitzed the league over the last few seasons.

 

In simple terms, the Magic are doing everything a bit worse. Last season, they turned the ball over on 13.6 percent of their possessions — a little below the league average. Their turnovers have jumped to 15.3 percent this season, the third-worst mark in the league, trailing only the Clippers and the perennially careless Bobcats. Other than Chris Duhon, who has mostly been a train wreck, no Magic player has seen a disastrous uptick in his turnover rate, though Bass always flirts with turnover problems.

 

The Magic hit 37.5 percent of their threes last season, tied for third-best in the league. They’re 17th this season, at 35.9 percent. Carter (33 percent), J.J. Redick (31 percent) and Quentin Richardson (34 percent) are all shooting worse than expected. Redick might be in a run-of-the-mill slump, but Carter and Richardson are both older than 30, and it’s fair to wonder whether this is just another step in their age-related declines. Rashard Lewis is also down a bit, to 37.5 percent, but he has shot better since his horrific early-season slump.

 

Another problem: The Magic ranked seventh last season in free throws per field-goal attempt, meaning they got to the line a lot. They’re down to 15th this season. That’s not a gigantic drop, but it’s another small downturn to add to a growing list of small downturns. Carter and Lewis have seen their free-throw attempts dip, and Mickael Pietrus has gotten to the line just four times in 388 minutes. That’s unacceptable, and Pietrus is morphing into some sort of James Jones-style player; a crazy 81 of his 107 field-goal attempts have been three-pointers.

 

None of these things on their own are fatal blows. But taken together, they have turned Orlando into a mediocre offensive team. The Magic can still win a lot of games that way, but they probably need to score more efficiently to beat Boston and Miami in the playoffs. Everyone says defense wins championships, but NBA history suggests you need at least a decent offense to go all the way in June.

 

So what should Orlando do? If I’m general manager Otis Smith, I’m working the phones to see if I can land a decent scorer who could come off my bench without surrendering Carter. If you’re trying to win this season, I don’t think any of the guards or swingmen on the market, including Arenas, are significant enough upgrades over Carter to risk shaking up the team to that degree and taking on any more bad long-term contracts. The plus/minus data show Orlando’s offense has struggled mostly when the Magic have more than one bench player in the game. That’s where I start, if I’m Smith – I’d start looking for a worried front office or a rebuilding club that’d be willing to exchange a decent, third-banana type in exchange for a first-round pick, Gortat/Anderson and whatever cap filler might be necessary.

 

Beyond that, the risks outweigh the rewards of a mega-trade, particularly when you consider that some of these ugly numbers — Redick’s shooting, for instance — are bound to correct themselves. The good news for Smith is that he has the next two-plus months to see if the Magic’s offense can approach last year’s production level again. If the mediocrity continues between now and then — and the Magic dip even further behind Miami and Boston — then you have to start trying bold things, including deals that would involve Carter, Lewis or even Jameer Nelson.

 

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2010/12/10/time-for-orlando-to-make-a-move/

[Marc Acres 3:16 418]

I wonder if our turnovers are up because of a slower pace. It doesn't seem like we push very much and I keep hearing Matty mention that we get next to nothing from breaks.

 

I'm sure all of the shooting is going to come back up including Vince and Q, I really don't understand the logic of saying a shooter loses something as they get older. If you want to say that they lose atheletism and they don't get past guys that makes sense but shooters don't lose their shots.

 

With regard to the MP comment, I think he needs to cut more. I don't trust him taking anymore than 1 dribble so if he needs to take something other than a 3 it should be off a cut.

[Bauncey Chillups 288]

Bucher is absolutely correct. Otis should only do a trade if it makes us the hands-down favorite in the East, anything else would be worthless.

[magicLA 57]

I'm sure all of the shooting is going to come back up including Vince and Q, I really don't understand the logic of saying a shooter loses something as they get older. If you want to say that they lose atheletism and they don't get past guys that makes sense but shooters don't lose their shots.

shooters lose their leg strength, stamina and if knees and back have been any sort of issue that magnifies as the player gets older. Those things definitely affect their shooting...some players develop adjustments that lengthen their effective careers - most don't.