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Nyce_1

Magic going in for Chris Paul

By Nyce_1, in The Thread Hall of Fame

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Murphy13    185

Murphy13
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

And so we begin!

 

quote:
Originally posted by murphy13:

 

Except points, rebounds, assists, steals, games played, blocks..etc. You know, the meaningless categories...Insert facepalm reference here...

 

 

Believe me, there isn't a facepalm in the world that could accurately depict my feelings towards your argument, but let's move on...

 

Jennings averaged 2.9 more points than Jameer while shooting horrendously. Not decent, not acceptable, but borderline detrimental to his team. 37% is terrible no matter which way you look at it, rookie or not, that is flat-out awful. He averaged 0.6 more rebounds while playing nearly four more minutes per game, so Jameer actually had a greater rebounding rate than him. The same goes for his assists, he averaged 0.3 more assists while playing more minutes and demonstrating a far higher usage rate. Steals and blocks are never factored into gauging PG play. The fact that Jennings/Nelson racked up such a minuscule number of blocks makes that factor practically invisible. Steals (especially from a PG position) often imply that the defender gambles too frequently, so I'll let you determine that one however you'd like.

 

quote:
You know, on a second look...Your right, Jameer shot 84% from the FT line, and Jennings shot a horrible 81%

 

I don't even know where this came from. I made no mention whatsover of freethrow shooting %, but given that you've chosen to highlight blocks/steals as strong indicators of overall PG play, then I guess I'll use FT%, too! 84% to 81%! Wow, it's more of a landslide than I thought!

 

quote:
I retract my whole statement about Jennings having better potential based on that fact alone. Jameerz iz teh best eva TITY! Forget that Jennings is 19 years old and Jameer's odds of having a season threatening injury are high. Also forget that Jameer plays with the best big in the game-that doesnt inflate his stats AT ALL!

 

There's the problem. No one has stated that Jennnings cannot become a better player. We've been arguing that Jennings did not, in any way, shape or form outplay Jameer last season, and once again, that's hardly debatable. And you throw Dwight in there as a reason to dismiss Jameer's stats? Did you conveniently forget that Bogut had a tremendous season in his own right, and carries skills that cater greatly to pick and roll play, where Jennnings acquired the majority of his assists? Did I mention he can also pick and pop for jumpers, giving him another assisting option?

 

 

 

quote:
Really, I expected more from you TITY. Once again, I like Jameer as a player. I wont let that cloud my judgement about other players though.

 

Really, I expected nothing more from you, murphy, and that's what makes this recurring discussion all the more depressing.

 

You put figurative words in my mouth to advance your flawed opinion. You can skew data any way you wish, I stick to the bottom line. You completely discount intangibles, and frankly, are taking a completely asinine standpoint arguing with me over Brandon Jennings, who is going to be a beast-something Jameer will never be-otherwise he would be it by now. Nothing against Jameer, but the abilities of Jennings run circles around Jameer.

 

You expand mpg for Jameer out to a point which he will never reach to argue against a player that puts up better numbers despite being thrown into a #1 scoring option-which is not Jennings destiny as a player. The fact that he is capable of being a #1 scorer is just icing on the cake. And this is why I said awhile back that it doesnt seem like people watch other team's players outside of when they play the magic.

 

And for the love of basketball, you say jennings shot poorly...but their 3pt shooting comparison is literally a wash. So you are really painting yourself in a corner with that. It shows that Jennings has the stroke to score at a high efficiency. He HAD to shoot at a high volume for the Bucks to be competitive night in night out. This was not what he was drafted for mind you. As a rook who has never played more than 30 games in a season, he went to playing starters minutes on a team that went to the playoffs in the NBA. Dont you think that even if Jameer were able to average 36mpg on a team where he was suddenly the #1 scoring option that his shooting %'s would drop just from volume alone? Let alone fatigue, injury, being covered by the other teams best defender, etc? Once again, your logic is flawed on this one.

 

just a quick edit, i never said blocks/steals equates a better pg. I was merely stating that Jennings contributes in more categories than Jameer. In fact, my arguement was more for each player as a whole, not just as a point guard.

 

And, really if you go back to the original conversation, I said that I would trade Jameer for Jennings because he WILL be a better player-and gave my reasoning. So even if it isnt obvious to you now that he is already a better player...its hard to argue that he wont be down the road. Barring mental/headcase or injury concerns of course. SO really, why are you taking such a losing position on this one? For every reason you suggest that Jameer is better I can provide two to suggest why Jennings will be. Arguing for the sake of arguing perhaps? Essence of the offseason...

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Fultz4thewin    2,464

Fultz4thewin
Posted

murphy's been on this board for 4 years and doesn't realize that Jareth and I are just puppets being controlled by DOM.

 

He wanted a two pronged attack for messageboard domination so he went for both Moderator powers of the elite and the laid back comedy posts of the working class.

 

The original plan was for me to integrate into board security and take them down from the inside while JD controlled board propaganda. Jareth was only a contingency plan.

 

As you've probably seen during the last week, JD has been compromised and he's passed the torch to Jareth.

 

All the pieces are already in play, there's nothing you can do to stop us now!

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Fultz4thewin    2,464

Fultz4thewin
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by murphy13:

quote:
Originally posted by ThisIsTheYear:

And so we begin!

 

quote:
Originally posted by murphy13:

 

Except points, rebounds, assists, steals, games played, blocks..etc. You know, the meaningless categories...Insert facepalm reference here...

 

 

Believe me, there isn't a facepalm in the world that could accurately depict my feelings towards your argument, but let's move on...

 

Jennings averaged 2.9 more points than Jameer while shooting horrendously. Not decent, not acceptable, but borderline detrimental to his team. 37% is terrible no matter which way you look at it, rookie or not, that is flat-out awful. He averaged 0.6 more rebounds while playing nearly four more minutes per game, so Jameer actually had a greater rebounding rate than him. The same goes for his assists, he averaged 0.3 more assists while playing more minutes and demonstrating a far higher usage rate. Steals and blocks are never factored into gauging PG play. The fact that Jennings/Nelson racked up such a minuscule number of blocks makes that factor practically invisible. Steals (especially from a PG position) often imply that the defender gambles too frequently, so I'll let you determine that one however you'd like.

 

quote:
You know, on a second look...Your right, Jameer shot 84% from the FT line, and Jennings shot a horrible 81%

 

I don't even know where this came from. I made no mention whatsover of freethrow shooting %, but given that you've chosen to highlight blocks/steals as strong indicators of overall PG play, then I guess I'll use FT%, too! 84% to 81%! Wow, it's more of a landslide than I thought!

 

quote:
I retract my whole statement about Jennings having better potential based on that fact alone. Jameerz iz teh best eva TITY! Forget that Jennings is 19 years old and Jameer's odds of having a season threatening injury are high. Also forget that Jameer plays with the best big in the game-that doesnt inflate his stats AT ALL!

 

There's the problem. No one has stated that Jennnings cannot become a better player. We've been arguing that Jennings did not, in any way, shape or form outplay Jameer last season, and once again, that's hardly debatable. And you throw Dwight in there as a reason to dismiss Jameer's stats? Did you conveniently forget that Bogut had a tremendous season in his own right, and carries skills that cater greatly to pick and roll play, where Jennnings acquired the majority of his assists? Did I mention he can also pick and pop for jumpers, giving him another assisting option?

 

 

 

quote:
Really, I expected more from you TITY. Once again, I like Jameer as a player. I wont let that cloud my judgement about other players though.

 

Really, I expected nothing more from you, murphy, and that's what makes this recurring discussion all the more depressing.

 

You put figurative words in my mouth to advance your flawed opinion. You can skew data any way you wish, I stick to the bottom line. You completely discount intangibles, and frankly, are taking a completely asinine standpoint arguing with me over Brandon Jennings, who is going to be a beast-something Jameer will never be-otherwise he would be it by now. Nothing against Jameer, but the abilities of Jennings run circles around Jameer.

 

You expand mpg for Jameer out to a point which he will never reach to argue against a player that puts up better numbers despite being thrown into a #1 scoring option-which is not Jennings destiny as a player. The fact that he is capable of being a #1 scorer is just icing on the cake. And this is why I said awhile back that it doesnt seem like people watch other team's players outside of when they play the magic.

 

And for the love of basketball, you say jennings shot poorly...but their 3pt shooting comparison is literally a wash. So you are really painting yourself in a corner with that. It shows that Jennings has the stroke to score at a high efficiency. He HAD to shoot at a high volume for the Bucks to be competitive night in night out. This was not what he was drafted for mind you. As a rook who has never played more than 30 games in a season, he went to playing starters minutes on a team that went to the playoffs in the NBA. Dont you think that even if Jameer were able to average 36mpg on a team where he was suddenly the #1 scoring option that his shooting %'s would drop just from volume alone? Let alone fatigue, injury, being covered by the other teams best defender, etc? Once again, your logic is flawed on this one.

 

how can you discount intangibles when they're, you know, not tangible

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Murphy13    185

Murphy13
Posted

I added to the comment that you quoted lewis...it goes into the intangible thing a little bit more. You jest...but are also correct. I think you are a good poster btw lewisftw, I just think that you were a better poster than a mod. Theres nothing wrong with that though...and its certainly nice having another mod on here to clean up the flaming diarrhea pictures like last offseason that still give me nightmares to this day.

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Secretly Space Jesus    670

Secretly Space Jesus
Posted

Anyone defending how Jennings shot this year has no ground to stand on. Jennings put up what was the 3rd worst shooting percentage amongst players taking at least 14 shots a game of the 3pt era.

 

He quite literally put up one of the three worst FG% of a volume shooter in the last 3 decades. He was *only* the 22nd worst of the shot-clock era though, so I suppose that's...something. You know, being the 22nd worst volume shooter by percentage in the last 56 years is pretty special!

 

Jennings does some nice things, but if you think shooting is anywhere near any of them, you should probably stop watching basketball.

http://www.basketball-referenc...g_pct&order_by_asc=Y

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Jameera Nelshon    3

Jameera Nelshon
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by echo4papa:

Now you're turning yourself completely into a troll CarlosDarwin. Congrats. We all knew you had it in you, just like Arroyo.

 

Echo, what do you think about this possible trade?

Do you like it?

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