Students Punished for Wearing American Flag Shirts on Cinco de Mayo

[~O~ 565]

quote:

Originally posted by Osprey23:

quote:

Originally posted by HighAngleEd:

This is garbage and O-Dub is exactly right. I can not believe I'm living in a country where wearing shirts representing our own flag would be considered "offensive". Is this seriously what I went to Afghanistan for?? I'm hoping like hell that it isn't, cause that year could have been better spent in my son's life.

 

Cinco de Mayo isn't ANYTHING to Mexicans except a victory over the French in one battle. Mexican Independence Day isn't until September. This is only an excuse for people to get drunk and stupid, and if I were a Mexican, I would be pissed at them for p erverting my history just to have an excuse to drink.

 

Edit: O-Dub beat me to it on the September issue.

 

You mean Osprey

 

And great post.

 

No. He means O-Dub

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

Osprey, not meant to be hostile but let me ask you this.

 

If on a high Christian holiday a group of kids decided to wear their church of Satan t-shirts to class would you deem it just a simple act of harmless protest?

 

edit: I meant to make it a point that the school in question is a private school.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

i feel like this is topical http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=287is6b&s=5

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

Read the whole entire thread and just feel like I have to say something here:

 

It is absolutely and totally obvious that these kids wore these shirts to start some ****. It was blatantly made to get under the skin of some of the Mexican-Americans there at the school. That being said, it still in no way makes what the school officials did right.

 

First: Was it disrupting school? Well I don't go there so of course I can't give a first hand opinion. But I guarantee it did no more to disrupt school then the kids who came to school that day to celebrate Cinco de Mayo instead of focusing on their studies. People disrupt school all the **** time and there are plenty of times it goes through. To the person who brought up someone wearing the confederate shirt on MLK day? Heck that happened all 4 years I went to high school, and that was only 5 years ago. Were they protesting MLK day or were they just wearing a Confederate shirt cause it's the only kind they have? I have no clue and neither do the administrators. They can make an educated guess sure, but the second you start dealing with free speech laws, you need to have a better notion than an educated guess.

 

Second: Did it start anything violent? This seems to be the kill all to free speech. Well as far as I can tell the only thing happening here was them walking around the halls wearing the shirts and bandana's and tossing out the occasional mexico sucks. First of all that is not racism. Mexico is not a race. Second of all, I've heard 10 times worse **** then this every day I went to school and the people who it was aimed at just walked on and dealt with it. So since we only stop them from being offensive on this one day when they add shirts to their hate of another country? The whole situation just reeks of an administrator taking political correctness to a whole nother level.

 

Third: Why do we stop here? As already mentioned in the supreme court case, free speech in protest is just as protected in school as it is everywhere else? So whats to stop someone from doing the same thing next Cinco de Mayo, wearing their American Flag, walking around the mall, talking about how mexico sucks, and then getting arrested? Of course bleeding hearts well say that it will never happen but that is the next step up from this, and as someone who studies history religously, I can tell you that one thing any government (Conservative or Liberal) can't resist doing is taking that next step of control.

 

So while I can agree that these kids were pretty much just being jackasses, I can say also that it is perfectly in their right to be jackasses. I'm sure this was no isolated incident, and I'm sure they've done **** like this before. So why did the administration wait till now to stop it?

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

Osprey, not meant to be hostile but let me ask you this.

 

If on a high Christian holiday a group of kids decided to wear their church of Satan t-shirts to class would you deem it just a simple act of harmless protest?

 

edit: I meant to make it a point that the school in question is a private school.

 

By making it a private school your argument is already flawed because almost all private schools have dress codes and require uniforms. So therefore the school in question would be perfectly in their right to tell them to remove the shirts or send them home. Also private schools are not Publicly run institutions. They can enforce their rules however they deem fit.

 

Now if this was a public school? They are perfectly within their right to wear them. And this is coming from a christian.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by Ramsde68:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

Osprey, not meant to be hostile but let me ask you this.

 

If on a high Christian holiday a group of kids decided to wear their church of Satan t-shirts to class would you deem it just a simple act of harmless protest?

 

edit: I meant to make it a point that the school in question is a private school.

 

By making it a private school your argument is already flawed because almost all private schools have dress codes and require uniforms. So therefore the school in question would be perfectly in their right to tell them to remove the shirts or send them home. Also private schools are not Publicly run institutions. They can enforce their rules however they deem fit.

 

Now if this was a public school? They are perfectly within their right to wear them. And this is coming from a christian.

 

Your 2nd response was what I was looking for. I wanted to see if it was something that hit closer to home would make a difference in opinion.

[BMP 424]

Schools are allowed to pretty much make you wear whatever the hell they want, and if they personally believe it would cause trouble, then they were in the right to stop it. It was stupid for the american kids to wear those shirts because we all know they were full of **** (the whole patriotism thing), and it was stupid for someone to actually complain. Either way, it's the school's job to help keep things safe, and this was their best idea in doing so.

 

 

The whole "OMG YOU CANT WEAR AN AMERICAN FLAG" thing is getting out of control. First of all, patriotism is dumb. And secondly, it's not because they were SPECIFIC American flag shirts, it's because THOSE SHIRTS were probably cause trouble.

 

 

Schools are allowed to do this the same way cops nowadays are allowed to use tasers. I don't agree with any of it, but that's probably the best way to handle these situations (taking into account most people, whether they're cops or school administrators, are too dumb to come up with logical solutions on the fly).

 

 

So really, question the amount of power schools are given and their handle of handling situations, not so much THIS COUNTRY IS TURNING INTO A MEXICAN *****HOUSE

[Ryan the Magic Fan 253]

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramsde68:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

Osprey, not meant to be hostile but let me ask you this.

 

If on a high Christian holiday a group of kids decided to wear their church of Satan t-shirts to class would you deem it just a simple act of harmless protest?

 

edit: I meant to make it a point that the school in question is a private school.

 

By making it a private school your argument is already flawed because almost all private schools have dress codes and require uniforms. So therefore the school in question would be perfectly in their right to tell them to remove the shirts or send them home. Also private schools are not Publicly run institutions. They can enforce their rules however they deem fit.

 

Now if this was a public school? They are perfectly within their right to wear them. And this is coming from a christian.

 

Your 2nd response was what I was looking for. I wanted to see if it was something that hit closer to home would make a difference in opinion.

 

I'd also take my answer one step further by saying this:

 

Would them wearing those shirts have offended me? My answer would be heck yes it would be offensive to me, and I'd be lying if I said other wise. But them being offensive to me is not their problem it is mine. People can be offended by anything these days. The more you try to stop people from being offensive the more you fail because your not adressing the main problem. The main problem are the people who are so easily offended.

 

People who say that abortion should be legal, that conservatives are nothing but fat people rich people who care only about money, that christians are racist inbreds, etc... Those are the kind of people who offend me. So what am I supposed to do? Find a way to stop them from offending me? Or do I just shut my mouth and develop some thicker skin?

 

You can guess what my answer is, and everyone in this country, regaurdles of what kind of cultural backgrounds they have, should try doing the same. We'd be a lot better off.

[Fultz4thewin 2,464]

quote:

Originally posted by Ramsde68:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

quote:

Originally posted by Ramsde68:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

Osprey, not meant to be hostile but let me ask you this.

 

If on a high Christian holiday a group of kids decided to wear their church of Satan t-shirts to class would you deem it just a simple act of harmless protest?

 

edit: I meant to make it a point that the school in question is a private school.

 

By making it a private school your argument is already flawed because almost all private schools have dress codes and require uniforms. So therefore the school in question would be perfectly in their right to tell them to remove the shirts or send them home. Also private schools are not Publicly run institutions. They can enforce their rules however they deem fit.

 

Now if this was a public school? They are perfectly within their right to wear them. And this is coming from a christian.

 

Your 2nd response was what I was looking for. I wanted to see if it was something that hit closer to home would make a difference in opinion.

 

I'd also take my answer one step further by saying this:

 

Would them wearing those shirts have offended me? My answer would be heck yes it would be offensive to me, and I'd be lying if I said other wise. But them being offensive to me is not their problem it is mine. People can be offended by anything these days. The more you try to stop people from being offensive the more you fail because your not adressing the main problem. The main problem are the people who are so easily offended.

 

People who say that abortion should be legal, that conservatives are nothing but fat people rich people who care only about money, that christians are racist inbreds, etc... Those are the kind of people who offend me. So what am I supposed to do? Find a way to stop them from offending me? Or do I just shut my mouth and develop some thicker skin?

 

You can guess what my answer is, and everyone in this country, regaurdles of what kind of cultural backgrounds they have, should try doing the same. We'd be a lot better off.

 

i agree 100%. The only thing i have issue with in this case is that schools are kind of a different issue. They air on the conservative side to prevent any issue.

 

Any school K-12 should be more considered with public safety than fostering free speech.

 

If the issue is worth something than the censorship will become an issue regardless.

 

I'm pretty happy with this outcome, kids got a larger platform for whatever "message" they were trying to promote and nobody got into any fights because of it.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

Ramsde, my point isn't whether or not they should be able to wear the shirts or not, or whether it offended me. I've gone over that already. My point is their intention of doing so was negative. It was simply a "Hey look at me" situation.

 

Osprey said regardless, intention should not be thrown into the equation as to whether or not they could wear them. I simply wanted to know if it was something closer to home if it would change his opinion.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

quote:

Originally posted by Osprey23:

quote:

Originally posted by bhnole:

Free speech can also be taken to extremes. If you simply say allow it with no exceptions then you get crackpots like these.

 

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/...ral-protest/19422884

 

Whose rights are being infringed here? Should a hate group be allowed to protest the funeral of any servicemen? How about the rights of privacy for the families. Yet the 5th amendment allows this kind of display of hate.

 

There are exceptions, the Clear and Present Danger Test is one means of limiting free speech, also called the "Fire in a Theater" test.

 

Also, Libel and slander, while not federal crimes, are punishable in civil suits.

 

The school environment is an exception. You do not have blanket freedom of speech in a school environment, there are guidelines that must be followed.

 

quote:

If I'm anti-Abortion and my intent is to get people to stop having them, would you prefer I discuss with people the facts and realities behind the procedure or plaster pictures of aborted fetuses all over the place?

 

The intent is the same. Methods of conveyance VERY different.

 

Back to intent. Do you believe, honestly, that the intent of these kids was to protest something? I believe their intent was to cause trouble, not to protest, and as such, their behavior was subject to regulation by the school.

 

We really don't know all the details, basically, objectionable or not, if the intent is peaceful protest they have the right, if their intent is to be disruptive, they do not. If they are disruptive, intending or not, I believe the school has the right to make a judgement call.

 

Here we go, right from the article:

 

quote:

The alleged concern was that the T-shirts would lead to fights on campus.

 

"They said if we tried to go back to class with our shirts not taken off, they said it was defiance and we would get suspended," said Dominic Maciel.

 

The chastised teens' parents were furious.

 

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous," Julie ***erstrom, Maciel's mom, said. "All they were doing was displaying their patriotic nature. They're expressing their individuality."

 

First, I believe that "alleged concern" to be a valid one, and that duty to public safety and safety of the kids in school is paramount to their right to protest.

 

Second, they were not punished for their attire, they were told to turn the shirts inside out and remove the bandannas. Any threat of punishment was for open defiance of the direction of school officials. Sounds about right.

 

Now, if Julie ***erstrom expects anyone to really believe that these kids were just being patriotic, well, then she deserved all the mocking her last name has brought her. Also, how funny is it to claim that these kids were expressing their individuality. As a group.

[Crazyhorse81 251]

Sorry, I had to run for a minute. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how yesterday has ANYTHING to do with Mexican heritage (I think Jareth was pointing that out)?? Yesterday was freaking Wednesday, and I have YET to hear ANYONE explain to me how wearing an American flag shirt on Wednesdays is somehow offensive. The fifth of May is NOT a national holiday in Mexico. If you want to respect other cultures, please at least know their important dates!!!

 

Were the kids trying to start trouble? Possibly, but we'll never know. The Thought Police came in and stopped them. But the Thought Police is a slippery slope that I'd just as soon not even bother going down. Take what you will from what happened. Yesterday was of no importance to anyone in Mexico who knows any better, so why are we making a big deal out of this?

 

Because we're worried about offending people. People need to sack up! This is LIFE, you're BOUND to be offended at some point, who cares??? Soon we won't be able to do much of anything around here because we're too worried about offending people....

 

Still waiting for someone to explain the significance of yesterday in relation to the Mexican population....