Health Care Passed

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by Lewis4thewin:

You have your current stance because you don't personally reap the benefits yet if in the foreseeable future something like this happened to you, you would be praising the system that protects you and your family.

 

You're absolutely wrong about me in this case. I am not one of those people that wants to live as long as possible at whatever cost. I would rather live as fully satisfied as possible for whatever time I am allowed, rather than live as long as possible even if as a financial and emotional drain to those that care for me or could care less. Some people that know me, even my family members, think that I am cold in this respect. That is fine. Everybody feels different aboutly about death. I do not embrace it, but I am certainly not going to run away from it regardless of expense.

 

But Smack, like you said, this is YOUR point of view. As an 30+ year old man (I'm assuming) who has had a fulfilling life. Most people would rather have their 4 year old daughter or 25 year old husband survive for as long as they can.

 

And while I agree with you on the financial and emotional drain part, I think the bigger picture is just the overall stress of the situation the family is going through. John Doe doesn't wake up saying "My daughter is dying, and I can't stand spending all this money to keep her alive". They wake up saying "My daughter is dying, I can barely afford to keep her alive, I need more help".

[Osprey 199]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

 

I completely support this bill. All of my healthcare is covered because of my military service and I have no issues whatsoever having more money taken out of my paycheck to fund this. It's a small price to pay to know that my parents will have the medical care they need, when they need it, without the risk of losing everything they've worked their whole lives to obtain.

 

Em, I see you have a personal stake in this issue, what with your parents and all, but I just want to point out that now that the government has taken the first major step in dictating how we will be treated, who treats us, etc, how long before the government starts deciding what foods we put into our bodies, what liquids, what products, and other increasingly personal rights that we share that will be restricted.

 

The state of New York is already banning transfats, and a Salt-ban is in the works.

 

Just remember, a government that provides everything can take everything, our founding fathers knew this and purposely left the states with individual power so that this type of national-level government dependency would not be a possibility.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by Osprey23:

 

The state of New York is already banning transfats, and a Salt-ban is in the works.

 

 

This is a good thing.

 

This is to prevent restaurants and the like from making this country as less healthy and obese then it already is. You want trans fat? Cook it in your own kitchen.

 

I think the whole "What's Next?" scenario is a bit overdramatic. People didn't like Civil Rights when they were first passed, and look how that worked out. Things happen.

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by Osprey23:

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

 

I completely support this bill. All of my healthcare is covered because of my military service and I have no issues whatsoever having more money taken out of my paycheck to fund this. It's a small price to pay to know that my parents will have the medical care they need, when they need it, without the risk of losing everything they've worked their whole lives to obtain.

 

Em, I see you have a personal stake in this issue, what with your parents and all, but I just want to point out that now that the government has taken the first major step in dictating how we will be treated, who treats us, etc, how long before the government starts deciding what foods we put into our bodies, what liquids, what products, and other increasingly personal rights that we share that will be restricted.

 

The state of New York is already banning transfats, and a Salt-ban is in the works.

 

Just remember, a government that provides everything can take everything, our founding fathers knew this and purposely left the states with individual power so that this type of national-level government dependency would not be a possibility.

 

Well my parents are just fine at the present time. I was just stating one of the reasons that a lot people support this bill. I do appreciate your concern though.

 

I think you are going to a bit of an extreme. We've both seen the fire storm that this debate has kicked up. Do you honestly see a scenario where a law banning burgers will ever pass? The problem with the medical system is that it is run by corporations who are only interested in turning a profit. If there were a way for state governements to run healthcare effectively, I would be all for that as well. I honestly don't care as long as people can get the healthcare coverage they need at a price that can be afforded. The majority of Americans are one medical emergency away from complete financial ruin. That is simply not acceptable.

[GhostAnime 50]

The only thing I show concern for in this bill is this: is it good for the long term? Because to me it just sounds like a quick fix. I think the solution should be trying to bring costs down overall.

[Franchero MVP 391]

quote:

Thus the comment, one step closer. The more socialist programs in place, the closer we are to socialism.

 

OH NOEEZZZZ!!! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

 

lmao

 

You wouldn't know socialism if it bit you in the arse. So spare me the scare tactic, buzzword, propaganda-based garbage.

 

And when I get more time, I will officially have to destroy Osprey's argument, yet again.

 

It's like a right-wing circle jerk in here. Kind of making me nauseous.

[Captain Hi-Top 791]

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

quote:

Originally posted by Osprey23:

 

The state of New York is already banning transfats, and a Salt-ban is in the works.

 

 

This is a good thing.

 

This is to prevent restaurants and the like from making this country as less healthy and obese then it already is. You want trans fat? Cook it in your own kitchen.

 

I think the whole "What's Next?" scenario is a bit overdramatic. People didn't like Civil Rights when they were first passed, and look how that worked out. Things happen.

 

Not a good thing. It's generally never a good thing when a government infringes upon your rights. Eating healthier might be a good thing for you, it might be what you want, but you have the right to make that choice. Sure, you say you can cook with trans fat in your own kitchen, but the right for a proprietor to make that decision for their own restaurant is being taken away. As such, your right to decide between that and a healthier alternative is being impacted.

 

It shouldn't be about what is best for you. We, as a people, should not want a government deciding what is best for usin every aspect of our lives.

 

If restaurants are free to decide on their own wether or not to use trans fats, and we as consumers are free to decide where to eat, then we get what we want by nature of voting with our dollars for the products provided. If people don't want trans fats, they will stop eating in restaurants that rely on them. Those places will be forced to make a decision when they start losing business.

 

I don't understand the rationalizations of people who think that less freedoms are a good thing, as a general rule, so long as those freedoms don't infringe upon the health and abilities of others. You brought up civil rights, I would remind you that racial discrimination infringes on the health and abilities of others.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

Yeah, 300,000 people die from obesity related illnesses. But by all means, let's fight to keep the trans fat in restaurants!

 

Some things become neccesary when a crisis is brought forth. It's like thinking your parents are just trying to make your life miserable when you're 16 but you think you know better.

 

I agree with you to an extent, but using banning trans fat 2 years ago in one state as an example of the Government taking away our freedom of choice is rather ridiculous IMO.

 

It's not like they took away cheeseburgers from the American people. They simply made it so that unhealthy and harmful products weren't used while making them.

[Franchero MVP 391]

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

Yeah, 300,000 people die from obesity related illnesses. But by all means, let's fight to keep the trans fat in restaurants!

 

Some things become neccesary when a crisis is brought forth. It's like thinking your parents are just trying to make your life miserable when you're 16 but you think you know better.

 

I agree with you to an extent, but using banning trans fat 2 years ago in one state as an example of the Government taking away our freedom of choice is rather ridiculous IMO.

 

It's not like they took away cheeseburgers from the American people. They simply made it so that unhealthy and harmful products weren't used while making them.

 

If logic worked on right wingers, they wouldn't be right wingers anymore.

 

Expect any reasonable argument to go in one ear and out the next. This is why I am truly hesitant to waste my time on exposing the untruths said about the recent health care bill.

 

Reasonable discussion seems to just be lost on some people.

[Jareth Cutestory 678]

quote:

Originally posted by LeBrickJames:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

Yeah, 300,000 people die from obesity related illnesses. But by all means, let's fight to keep the trans fat in restaurants!

 

Some things become neccesary when a crisis is brought forth. It's like thinking your parents are just trying to make your life miserable when you're 16 but you think you know better.

 

I agree with you to an extent, but using banning trans fat 2 years ago in one state as an example of the Government taking away our freedom of choice is rather ridiculous IMO.

 

It's not like they took away cheeseburgers from the American people. They simply made it so that unhealthy and harmful products weren't used while making them.

 

If logic worked on right wingers, they wouldn't be right wingers anymore.

 

Expect any reasonable argument to go in one ear and out the next.

 

I get his point LeBrick. Take away one thing, what stops you from taking away something even bigger.

 

But it just leads to a series of What If's. Just because they take away trans fat, doesn't mean they're aiming to take away our right to eat green vegetables next. They aren't out to tell us what to eat and what not to eat. They are trying to take away something harmful included in the meals that we love. I don't see the harm in that one bit.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

quote:

Originally posted by Osprey23:

 

The state of New York is already banning transfats, and a Salt-ban is in the works.

 

 

This is a good thing.

 

This is to prevent restaurants and the like from making this country as less healthy and obese then it already is. You want trans fat? Cook it in your own kitchen.

 

I think the whole "What's Next?" scenario is a bit overdramatic. People didn't like Civil Rights when they were first passed, and look how that worked out. Things happen.

 

Not a good thing. It's generally never a good thing when a government infringes upon your rights. Eating healthier might be a good thing for you, it might be what you want, but you have the right to make that choice. Sure, you say you can cook with trans fat in your own kitchen, but the right for a proprietor to make that decision for their own restaurant is being taken away. As such, your right to decide between that and a healthier alternative is being impacted.

 

It shouldn't be about what is best for you. We, as a people, should not want a government deciding what is best for usin every aspect of our lives.

 

If restaurants are free to decide on their own wether or not to use trans fats, and we as consumers are free to decide where to eat, then we get what we want by nature of voting with our dollars for the products provided. If people don't want trans fats, they will stop eating in restaurants that rely on them. Those places will be forced to make a decision when they start losing business.

 

I don't understand the rationalizations of people who think that less freedoms are a good thing, as a general rule, so long as those freedoms don't infringe upon the health and abilities of others. You brought up civil rights, I would remind you that racial discrimination infringes on the health and abilities of others.

 

The counter point to that argument is that obesity related health costs are a financial drain on the public at large, not just people who are themselves obese.

[richnba 3]

quote:

Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery:

quote:

Originally posted by echo4papa:

quote:

Originally posted by Jareth Cutestory:

quote:

Originally posted by Osprey23:

 

The state of New York is already banning transfats, and a Salt-ban is in the works.

 

 

This is a good thing.

 

This is to prevent restaurants and the like from making this country as less healthy and obese then it already is. You want trans fat? Cook it in your own kitchen.

 

I think the whole "What's Next?" scenario is a bit overdramatic. People didn't like Civil Rights when they were first passed, and look how that worked out. Things happen.

 

Not a good thing. It's generally never a good thing when a government infringes upon your rights. Eating healthier might be a good thing for you, it might be what you want, but you have the right to make that choice. Sure, you say you can cook with trans fat in your own kitchen, but the right for a proprietor to make that decision for their own restaurant is being taken away. As such, your right to decide between that and a healthier alternative is being impacted.

 

It shouldn't be about what is best for you. We, as a people, should not want a government deciding what is best for usin every aspect of our lives.

 

If restaurants are free to decide on their own wether or not to use trans fats, and we as consumers are free to decide where to eat, then we get what we want by nature of voting with our dollars for the products provided. If people don't want trans fats, they will stop eating in restaurants that rely on them. Those places will be forced to make a decision when they start losing business.

 

I don't understand the rationalizations of people who think that less freedoms are a good thing, as a general rule, so long as those freedoms don't infringe upon the health and abilities of others. You brought up civil rights, I would remind you that racial discrimination infringes on the health and abilities of others.

 

The counter point to that argument is that obesity related health costs are a financial drain on the public at large, not just people who are themselves obese.

 

Now if I may ask, in what way is my neighbor being overweight affecting me? Not being smart, I would really like to hear the arguement.