Our PG play is atrocious...

[Dirtdan 0]

quote:

Originally posted by Osi:

this is a different team with a pure pg, someone like andre miller who might not be the best, but is still a pure pg, would fit will with this team next year since you dont have a high draft pick. Look at Melo' before Me, Myself, and Iverson, now look at him, he has to create his own shot all the time, he doesnt look very happy with Me, Myself and Iverson.

 

 

Andre Miller would be an incredible upgrade over what we have now.

[SmackDaddy 30]

quote:

Originally posted by JC Aponte:

Smack..come on , as soon as yo usmelled that hte comments could be somehow positive towards Carlos Arroyo you come up with the "please dont make this a Jameer Vs Carlos thread".

 

Actually what this guys posted is very intresting since the came up with real stats and didnt came up with any hard core "BS" fanatic stuff...just plain numbers that could mean something intresting in this disaster that the Magic are in right now.

 

So once again thanks for your somments but no thanks..let then post all they want as long as they do it in a respectfull manner and keep posting credible stats.

 

Keep it up guys.

 

You know what I'm getting at though JC. Both of our point guards have played horribly ALL SEASON. Both of them, and that's tough for me to say since I admire Jameer and his gritty play (once gritty, I guess).

Then, like clock work, the posts start coming in referencing Arroyo's success during one or two games. Statements like "Arroyo could score 12-14 ppg while bringing in 5-7 ast" if her were to open the game, and "Arroyo should get more playing time", have nothing to do with how poor BOTH of our point guards have played all season. That's what this post was about.

Just once I'd like to hear Arroyo's fans question his execution, shot selection, playmaking ability, etc.

As a huge Jameer Nelson fan, it pains me to criticize him, but facts are facts. To not recognize and admit that our point guards are costing this team to play well is ridiculous. They have both played very bad this season.

[Secretly Space Jesus 670]

quote:

Originally posted by SmackDaddy:

quote:

Originally posted by JC Aponte:

Smack..come on , as soon as yo usmelled that hte comments could be somehow positive towards Carlos Arroyo you come up with the "please dont make this a Jameer Vs Carlos thread".

 

Actually what this guys posted is very intresting since the came up with real stats and didnt came up with any hard core "BS" fanatic stuff...just plain numbers that could mean something intresting in this disaster that the Magic are in right now.

 

So once again thanks for your somments but no thanks..let then post all they want as long as they do it in a respectfull manner and keep posting credible stats.

 

Keep it up guys.

 

You know what I'm getting at though JC. Both of our point guards have played horribly ALL SEASON. Both of them, and that's tough for me to say since I admire Jameer and his gritty play (once gritty), I guess).

Then, like clock work, the posts start coming in referencing Arroyo's success during one or two games. Statements like "Arroyo could score 12-14 ppg while bringing in 5-7 ast" if her were to open the game, and "Arroyo should get more playing time", have nothing to do with how poor BOTH of our point guards have played all season. That's what this post was about.

Just once I'd like to hear Arroyo's fans question his execution, shot selection, playmaking ability, etc.

As a huge Jameer Nelson fan, it pains me to criticize him, but facts are facts. To not recognize and admit that our point guards are costing this team to pay well is ridiculous. They have both played very bad this season.

 

Smack, I wrote something similar to that in the "Who're the most annoying people on the board?" thread a week or two ago.

 

Look, my favorite players are Trevor and Darko. They have bad games. Darko sometimes looks lost, and Trevor sometimes tries to force his shots. It's reality. Does it mean I'm not a fan of those guys? Of course not. I was practically chewing on my furniture while I watched Darko get pulled with two minutes left in the first when he already had pulled down 10 points and 7 rebounds against Chicago.

But at the same time, I have to be willing to admit: Darko did not play well offensively against San Antonio or Dallas.

[Emory889 353]

Carlos seems to play a very different style when he plays for the National team and I think thats when most of his Puerto Rican fans see him play. At the same time I have started to wonder recently how many Magic games get televised over there. That would explain the majority of Arroyo supporters belief that the boxscore is undeniable proof that Arroyo is a great PG.

 

Could the guys in Puerto Rico answer this question. How many Magic games get televised there?

[serviviente 0]

Finally somebody who is making unbias and exellent points about both of our point guards. I agree they have not played well however i dont think they are the reason we wont make the playoffs. Our problem is that we have shoting guards that can't shoot (see hedo, ariza, doolingnn and what his name) I truly beleive that Jammer will exell coming from the bench. Same with Turk. Not that Carlos has play better that Nelson but I can live with Carlos stats knowing that he is not a starter. Its hard to swallow Nelson stats as a starter! Now if the game is close Jammer needs to be in it. Now if we could only bring Billups!!!! Oh well!

[The Dude Abides 0]

For some reason, some of ya'll are having a problem seeing the forest through the trees. Somehow youv'e blindly taken a few stats that were posted and warped this thread into another feeble attempt to elevate or critisize one player vs. another. The simple fact is BOTH players numbers undeniably point out that they have been playing horrible ball. Once again some of the fans who cheer for a player rather than the Magic , somehow have "proved" their point.. what they lack in common sense, they make up for with unabashed idolization of a player. Our Pg's efficiency ratings are in the dump, and that is assuming everyone is on the level playing field, adjusted for 48 mins of play.

NBA Guards Eff. Ratings

 

Now take out the likes of Bryants, Carters, Martins ,Redds etc... (all the pure shooting guards) that leaves us with Carlos ranking in at 38th and Jameer at 41st. - remember thats in an adjusted format for 48 minutes per, meaning that this is if everyone started and played all game. By looking at the numbers, this tells us that neither of our guards are capable of playing up to the standards of an average starter in the league - not Carlos, not Jameer. It also goes to show that about a third of the second stringers would make a better starter than Carlos or Jameer.

 

So I dont care who who like, who represents your culture and people, who you think should be starting or anything of the sorts - both these guys stink.

[SmackDaddy 30]

I was just about to make the same point with the efficiency rankings.

 

At least a few people see where I am coming from.

 

Serviviente - I agree that the lack of a true SG definitely hurts our chances of competing. However, we had Deshawn Stevenson last year. So, either he was better than he get credit for, or our PGs are really struggling.

Maybe a little of both?

[Emory889 353]

quote:

Originally posted by The Dude Abides:

For some reason, some of ya'll are having a problem seeing the forest through the trees. Somehow youv'e blindly taken a few stats that were posted and warped this thread into another feeble attempt to elevate or critisize one player vs. another. The simple fact is BOTH players numbers undeniably point out that they have been playing horrible ball. Once again some of the fans who cheer for a player rather than the Magic , somehow have "proved" their point.. what they lack in common sense, they make up for with unabashed idolization of a player. Our Pg's efficiency ratings are in the dump, and that is assuming everyone is on the level playing field, adjusted for 48 mins of play.

NBA Guards Eff. Ratings

 

Now take out the likes of Bryants, Carters, Martins ,Redds etc... (all the pure shooting guards) that leaves us with Carlos ranking in at 38th and Jameer at 41st. - remember thats in an adjusted format for 48 minutes per, meaning that this is if everyone started and played all game. By looking at the numbers, this tells us that neither of our guards are capable of playing up to the standards of an average starter in the league - not Carlos, not Jameer. It also goes to show that about a third of the second stringers would make a better starter than Carlos or Jameer.

 

So I dont care who who like, who represents your culture and people, who you think should be starting or anything of the sorts - both these guys stink.

 

Well said man

[fishybashi 0]

Emory said it. Ouch.

 

I think coaching staff has placed these players in a pedestal, where they shouldn't be. It's so funny that very minimal adjustments have been done in the PG position all year long! In fact, where back where it all started. Jameer starting and Arroyo as back-up. That's a net change of ... zero!

[ibonedteribell 0]

quote:

Originally posted by emory889:

Carlos seems to play a very different style when he plays for the National team and I think thats when most of his Puerto Rican fans see him play. At the same time I have started to wonder recently how many Magic games get televised over there. That would explain the majority of Arroyo supporters belief that the boxscore is undeniable proof that Arroyo is a great PG.

 

Could the guys in Puerto Rico answer this question. How many Magic games get televised there?

No free games except those given by TNT and ESPN. The rest you have to pay for. The question that always remain open meanwhile is, Why not give Arroyo a chance to start this season before you make the definite PG changes? Jameer on the long run should get adjusted to his new role of back up PG and SG, although I feel Otis feels otherwise. Why continue with a strategy thats not working? The attitude they both stink anyway, why make any changes, also stinks.

[SmackDaddy 30]

For all those fans that think Arroyo should start...I can understand how Jameer looks like he would fit better with the second unit based on his affinity to score. However, he is already among the league's worst in minutes played per game for starting PGs. Matter of fact, he ranks dead last in the league for minutes played.

Not sure what the solution is, but change just for the sake of change also doesn't seem to be a good idea. I want what's best for the team, and if that was switching PGs, I would be all for it. However, none of our PGs have demonstrated over the course of the season that they deserve more playing time, including Jameer.

[Purchase 0]

Smack cmon you know Jameer in his last 5 games has played more than 30 mins or so, and in his last 5 games hes avg are near the worst in all NBA for a starting pg except for his fg percentage or his points. Here are the avg of his last 5 games.

 

Jameer.

 

Mins: 33.3

 

points: 16.2

 

Fg% : .483

 

Ast: 3.6

 

T.O : 4.8

 

What this tells you is that in the only place hes good is on shooting. I think people understand what this stats mean. Jameer is definetly a pure scorer and when you put him in the line up with other scorers or big guys waiting to get the ball everything goes wrong and this hurts everyones game. Put Nelson with players where he would be the first choice to shoot and you will see how everyone is going to improve their game.