Secretly Space Jesus 670 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by murphy13:are you serious? we were screaming to play gortat all season...and he finally did...see previous post...actually 2 posts ago... We? Are you pregnant? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Hi-Top 791 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by murphy13: quote: Originally posted by echo4papa: quote: Originally posted by Mr Charisma: quote: Originally posted by CaliMagicFan:The argument that Pietrus is a better defender, so the backup doesn't need to be as good is also flawed. The 2 guard needs to be a good defender on this team because the PG, SF, and PF are generally weak defenders, so the SG has to step up. If you wanted to make the argument that Anthony Johnson (or JCritt) will provide better defense at the PG spot, and Battie will provide better defense at the PF spot, allowing JJ to play and be the designated scorer on that unit...that's an argument that would make a little more sense. I'd buy that you don't need as good a defender if JJ's out there with a lineup of Johnson/JJ/Shard/Battie/Dwight. I'd especially buy it if you put Gortat in there for Dwight, because they'd need offense from somewhere. Cali, I'm going to have to disagree with you and Smack to some degree here. When you build a roster, you build it for flexibility. Your argument about the PG, SF and PF being weak defensively is true for the starting lineup, not the back-ups, and we are talking about the 2nd unit here. Anthony Johnson is a VERY good defender. And Battie, Gortat and Foyle can also be solid defenders. If you continue to duplicate talent at the same positions, then you can neither react to the other team nor force them to react differently to you. Keeping JJ as a SG makes infinitely more sense than keeping Bogans when the other SGs are Pietrus and Lee. As to who deserves the backup minutes most will be determined during the season, but dumping JJ and keeping Bogans is giving away lineup flexibility for SVG (unless you give considerable weight to the theory that having Bogans as a 3rd option at the SF position is valuable on this roster). I'm certainly not saying that JJ is better than Bogans, but he could be more valuable to SVG based on the roster we are expecting to see. Which is probably the reason why Otis (reportedly) doesn't want to send both JJ and a protected 1st for Critt. i am glad there is some sense floating around this thread, i am tired of people not seeing the big picture. Still doesn't mean he is 2nd on the depth chart, particularly for the simple fact that he 'has earned it' due to time spent on the bench. It just means he gives more flexibilty to the team overall than Bogans. If Lee is a more complete player, then I would expect JJ to maybe get some limited situational minutes. Although, that didn't seem to work out well for him last season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by murphy13:are you serious? we were screaming to play gortat all season...and he finally did...see previous post...actually 2 posts ago... We? Are you pregnant? what? is your memory that short? you know, my wife suffered from short term memory loss when she was pregnant, maybe you should be asking yourself that question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by echo4papa: quote: Originally posted by murphy13: quote: Originally posted by echo4papa: quote: Originally posted by Mr Charisma: quote: Originally posted by CaliMagicFan:The argument that Pietrus is a better defender, so the backup doesn't need to be as good is also flawed. The 2 guard needs to be a good defender on this team because the PG, SF, and PF are generally weak defenders, so the SG has to step up. If you wanted to make the argument that Anthony Johnson (or JCritt) will provide better defense at the PG spot, and Battie will provide better defense at the PF spot, allowing JJ to play and be the designated scorer on that unit...that's an argument that would make a little more sense. I'd buy that you don't need as good a defender if JJ's out there with a lineup of Johnson/JJ/Shard/Battie/Dwight. I'd especially buy it if you put Gortat in there for Dwight, because they'd need offense from somewhere. Cali, I'm going to have to disagree with you and Smack to some degree here. When you build a roster, you build it for flexibility. Your argument about the PG, SF and PF being weak defensively is true for the starting lineup, not the back-ups, and we are talking about the 2nd unit here. Anthony Johnson is a VERY good defender. And Battie, Gortat and Foyle can also be solid defenders. If you continue to duplicate talent at the same positions, then you can neither react to the other team nor force them to react differently to you. Keeping JJ as a SG makes infinitely more sense than keeping Bogans when the other SGs are Pietrus and Lee. As to who deserves the backup minutes most will be determined during the season, but dumping JJ and keeping Bogans is giving away lineup flexibility for SVG (unless you give considerable weight to the theory that having Bogans as a 3rd option at the SF position is valuable on this roster). I'm certainly not saying that JJ is better than Bogans, but he could be more valuable to SVG based on the roster we are expecting to see. Which is probably the reason why Otis (reportedly) doesn't want to send both JJ and a protected 1st for Critt. i am glad there is some sense floating around this thread, i am tired of people not seeing the big picture. Still doesn't mean he is 2nd on the depth chart, particularly for the simple fact that he 'has earned it' due to time spent on the bench. It just means he gives more flexibilty to the team overall than Bogans. If Lee is a more complete player, then I would expect JJ to maybe get some limited situational minutes. Although, that didn't seem to work out well for him last season. it means hes a better fit, like i have been saying all along...besides the more we play him the more value he will accrue...hence the better sense for our franchise. im done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Hi-Top 791 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by murphy13: quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by murphy13:are you serious? we were screaming to play gortat all season...and he finally did...see previous post...actually 2 posts ago... We? Are you pregnant? what? is your memory that short? you know, my wife suffered from short term memory loss when she was pregnant, maybe you should be asking yourself that question. The ever popular, but cleverly disguised, "I know you are, but what am I?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Hi-Top 791 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by murphy13:besides the more we play him the more value he will accrue...hence the better sense for our franchise. im done. Assuming he has an acceptable level of play. If he stinks it up, what little (if any) trade value he has is completely vanished. Did the timer on the oven go off? I think you were finished long ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emory889 353 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: do you remember what it took to get him pt, even though we needed him all season? yes he finally got playing time in the playoffs... but remember all i ever said was not to expect PT for lee from the start, and to not expect him to crack the rotation until dec/jan timeframe. so it fits. sometimes i think that people just jump on the flaming bandwagon and neglect to read the whole post to know where people stand... Quit acting like you are being attacked. You posted something that I didn't agree with and I responded. Don't make it in to something that its not. The reason that Stan opted for Gortat in the playoffs was he didn't like the way Foyle matched up with the Raptors. Gortat played well so he stuck with him in the Pistons series. It really wasn't just Stan....every expert associated with the Magic didn't think Gortat was ready to contribute immediately. Gortat was patient, learned the system, and when he got his opportunity he took advantage of it. Like it was mentioned earlier, I think its speaks to Stan's ability to adjust that he was willing to go a different direction in the playoffs. I know its something our former coach wouldn't have done. Lee is a completely different story. He is a 4 year senior that is regarded as one of the more polished players to enter the league this year. He is ready to come in and contribute. If you choose to think JJ will somehow spring board him and Bogans then go right ahead. If I were a betting man I would gladly make a wager with you on the subject. Looks like easy money to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NotByChoice 2 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 I changed my mind I don't hate JJ anymore but I wish he would apologize for kicking my dog. And no I don't think he'll get playing time over Lee. Did we draft another SG in the first round just so he can sit behind another SG on our team already AGAIN? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BX Truth 0 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 ha, thats classic NotByChoic.... I think he will get his fair shot like every year, but if he doesn't produce he will be on the bench. I just don't see it being a bad thing to have another shooter...even if he is on the bench. Its better than shipping him off so he can put a dagger in us. Lets see how this pans out after camp starts and then bring up the...."we want JJ"...threads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Murphy13 185 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by echo4papa: quote: Originally posted by murphy13:besides the more we play him the more value he will accrue...hence the better sense for our franchise. im done. Assuming he has an acceptable level of play. If he stinks it up, what little (if any) trade value he has is completely vanished. Did the timer on the oven go off? I think you were finished long ago. it was actually the microwave...why you gotta be such an ***? what did i do to you? but now im really done with this topic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Secretly Space Jesus 670 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by murphy13: quote: Originally posted by Drunk on Mystery: quote: Originally posted by murphy13:are you serious? we were screaming to play gortat all season...and he finally did...see previous post...actually 2 posts ago... We? Are you pregnant? what? is your memory that short? you know, my wife suffered from short term memory loss when she was pregnant, maybe you should be asking yourself that question. Pregnancy seemed like the only reasonable theory for why you'd use a plural pronoun when so far you've been the only one to really take up your position, particularly this new one about Marcin Gortat. I can't imagine who you think was calling for Gortat all season last season, unless you consider "Can't we find someone better than Foyle?" to be calling for Gortat specifically, even though as I've already mentioned, at the start of the season there were 3 players between the two on the depth chart. As for your preposterous hypothesis that Gortat was ready at the start of the season, well, that's laughable to an untrained monkey, let alone an actual adult with a functioning brain and an eye for basketball. I was there, in person, for two of Marcin Gortat's first 3 games, including the one in Washington, which was the first one where he actually did anything worth noticing. I even wrote a longform post about that game which is currently buried somewhere on the server, and I noted that The Warlock worked incredibly hard in warmups, and genuinely seemed like he wanted to improve, spending his time practicing his post moves and playing hard(with the exception of a brief Souljaboy dance off with Dwight, which was hilarious), even at the time contrasting this with JJ looking incredibly bored and doing very little. All that was nice enough to be certain, but it didn't change the fact that he, talking about the Warlock again, didn't look ready to contribute meaningfully. He was still mechanical somewhat(though less than Foyle), and still looked lost at times. To suggest that we as a fanbase should've been calling for him to play, much less that we actually actively were is silly, and noting that he clearly wasn't ready as recently the first week of March should bring into attention just what kind of risk it was to play him in the playoffs like that. But you've chosen to circumvent and ignore that point, because it not only doesn't mesh with your argument, it completely obliterates it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Hi-Top 791 Report post Posted July 25, 2008 quote: Originally posted by murphy13: quote: Originally posted by echo4papa: quote: Originally posted by murphy13:besides the more we play him the more value he will accrue...hence the better sense for our franchise. im done. Assuming he has an acceptable level of play. If he stinks it up, what little (if any) trade value he has is completely vanished. Did the timer on the oven go off? I think you were finished long ago. it was actually the microwave...why you gotta be such an ***? what did i do to you? but now im really done with this topic Nothing other than provide some easy opportunity for low brow humor. Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
